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Shawn
I'll sell you map to Lost Dutchman mine!
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 2592
Location: Ahwatukee, AZ
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 Posted: 6/19/2006, 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| paintninaz wrote: |
| azbackpackr wrote: |
| Hello, people, it's a fire-adapted biological zone. It's SUPPOSED to burn. It's the people who build houses in it who are stupid. |
But if its a stupid people caused fire it wasn't supposed to happen in the first place. Therefore it seems to me, it isn't supposed to burn. Natural occurances are totally different. |
Just a matter of ignition, is it fate that ignites it by a cigarette versus lightning? Is lightning any more "natural" than a careless human?
Dammed if I know . . . .
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The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see. |
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azbackpackr
Hi Tech Wizardess
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 3639
Location: Needles CA
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Well, I do feel sorry for the folks, but with all the factors added together (past fire suppression, not enough controlled burning and thinning, houses built too close to volatile fuels) it's just not surprising at all. Whether man-caused or lightning-caused it is basically inevitable that if you build your home in a biologically fire-adapted area and you do not do a lot of clearing around your home, nor use fire-retardant materials in your home's construction, eventually it is going to burn down. This is also true in the White Mtns. where there are a lot of homes built in the pine forest. The firefighters often won't even try to save your home if you have a lot of brush and trees right up close to the house. They will try to save homes that have a chance.
Some people are starting to do a lot of clearing up here on this mtn. and also a few people are building homes that don't catch on fire so readily, which seems to make sense.
Remember the Oakland fire? |
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Hnak
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1766
Location: Prescott, AZ
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Something's really burning somewhere near here. I've been watching slurry bombers take off outside my window every 10 minutes all day long....
I hope they're helping to contain whatever fire they're working on!
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The world is older and bigger than we are. This is a hard truth for some folks to swallow. —EDWARD ABBEY |
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Hnak wrote: |
Something's really burning somewhere near here. I've been watching slurry bombers take off outside my window every 10 minutes all day long....
I hope they're helping to contain whatever fire they're working on! |
Gotta be the Brin Fire.
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Hnak
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1766
Location: Prescott, AZ
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| mike wrote: |
| Hnak wrote: |
Something's really burning somewhere near here. I've been watching slurry bombers take off outside my window every 10 minutes all day long....
I hope they're helping to contain whatever fire they're working on! |
Gotta be the Brin Fire. |
That's what I assumed, I just can't see over Mingus Mountain... It's really something watching these planes take off in this hot, thin air. They climb verrrrry slowly at first, sometimes flying for a mile or two before attempting a slow, gradual turn. When they have finally gained enough altitude, they head off to the east (to the Brin fire).... The P3's are definitely better performing planes than the old P2V's...
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The world is older and bigger than we are. This is a hard truth for some folks to swallow. —EDWARD ABBEY |
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| azcentral.com wrote: |
Feverish attempt to save Oak Creek Canyon
Judi Villa and Monica Alonzo-Dunsmoor
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 19, 2006 02:09 PM
SEDONA - Firefighters worked feverishly Monday to keep the fast-moving Brins Fire from gaining a foothold in Oak Creek Canyon, where it could be fueled even more by untamed wilderness and possibly make a run towards Flagstaff.
The conflagration quickly grew from just a couple acres Sunday night to several thousand overnight. About 500 homes and businesses remain evacuated, and Oak Creek Canyon is closed.
Flames crested Wilson Mountain early on Monday, potentially putting the popular Slide Rock State Park in its path if the flames are not reined in. Wilson Mountain forms part of the west wall of the canyon.
A state of emergency has been declared in the area, and Fire Information Officer Dick Fleishman said the blaze is a "national priority."
"A lot of it is Oak Creek Canyon," Fleishman said. "If it gets in there and gets established, then it has potential for some pretty large growth. That's all wilderness."
No structures were immediately in danger, and fire officials say it's unlikely the flames could get as far as Flagstaff, 30 miles away, where 1,000 homes were evacuated last week when the Woody Fire burned within 2 miles of downtown.
But on Monday, the Brins Fire showed no signs of slowing down. Fire was active early in the morning when it usually dies down. And by noon, flames could be seen coming down both sides of the mountain.
"We've got flames. It's coming down the hill. It's just coming over right now," said Fire Information Officer Eric Neitzel as he drove through the fire area.
In the canyon, firefighters worked Monday clearing debris around structures and cutting down dead trees as the wind carried gray ashes over the area. Air tankers were dropping as much as 2,400 gallons of retardant every five minutes.
"All it takes is one ember and the whole place goes up in flames," said Art Morrison, a fire information officer.
Sedona Fire District Capt. Paul Lindfors said much of the area is private property, but officials have been asking residents for years to clear it. Fleishman said there have been no forest thinning projects in the area, even though such efforts were in the planning stages.
"Now we're in here and it's creating a lot of work for us. . . . We're just crossing our fingers and working hard," Lindfors said.
"We don't want any of the fire here because then it'll jump the canyon and that's the last thing we want. It will run right up the side, and then it's out of here, and I'm not sure we can stop it."
At normally bustling campgrounds, just a few abandoned tents dotted the landscape. Slide Rock and Grasshopper Point, where cars usually line up to enter, were deserted. Some of the picnic tables still had bagged lunches on them, as if those who intended to eat them left in a hurry.
A firefighter stood on the roof of one cabin at Slide Rock Lodge.
At the Briar Patch Inn in Oak Creek, guests had cleared out from all 18 cottages.
"There's just a lot of concern and heartache for what's happening," said Rob Olson, whose family has owned the Inn for 23 years. He was among several area residents who opted to stay. "I just hope all these great firefighters can do their job."
Olson said it would take a lot for him to leave: "I'd probably have to see the flames coming down the mountain."
Oak Creek Canyon is a popular tourist destination for its beautiful red rocks, creeks and hiking trails. Luxury homes and cabins nestle among pinons, junipers, sycamores and maples alongside Highway 89A.
"You worry about the people who have homes up there," said Rena Jackson, a camper from Albuquerque who was forced from the Cave Springs campground. Jackson, who had just spent a week camping at Yosemite, had to leave behind a trailer stocked with her new sleeping bag and camping gear.
"I'm lucky," Jackson said. "If I lose the trailer, I'm not happy. But it's not a home. . . . And it's not a life. Those (other) things can be replaced at some future date."
Sedona Mayor Pud Colquitt was among those who remained evacuated on Monday.
"It's a wait-and-see right now," Colquitt said. "When you handle 3 or 4 million tourists each year, you can handle this."
"It's something we live with. . . . You have to be aware and prepared for this."
Colquitt added: "Mother Nature is going to have her way, and we just have to respect that and let the professionals do their job. I have a lot of faith. We're going to be OK."
More than 200 firefighters were assigned to the blaze. Four helicopters and four air tankers dropped retardant and water. On the ground, firefighters were hampered by steep, hilly terrain that made access difficult.
"If it's in the slopes, there's not a lot you can do about it," Fleishman said. "They're too steep and it's not safe for firefighters."
One of the biggest concerns remained downslope winds at night, which could force the fire downhill and scatter embers and other debris that would spread the flames.
Businesses in downtown Sedona remained open on Monday and several hotels in the area cut their rates because of the fire. The Pink Jeep Tours were filled. And outside the Cowboy Corral, the mechanical arm of an old-west "sheriff" waved hello.
"It's a little stop on everybody's trip to Arizona and the Grand Canyon," said Daniel Wishnewsky, who takes tourists on Pink Jeep Tours through the area.
But this year, the whole state has been particularly hard hit by wildfires. In the past several weeks, homes have been evacuated in Flagstaff, near Heber and outside Alpine.
The Brins Fire is the second major wildfire to threaten the Sedona area this month. At the beginning of June, the La Barranca Fire burned one home and damaged a second home and some outbuildings when it burned in the Village of Oak Creek, about 15 miles south.
"It's a shame," said Wishnewsky, who lives near where the La Barranca Fire burned. "I keep looking for the thunderheads. We need rain."
Wishnewsky said he watched the smoke all afternoon Sunday from his home, thinking how this couldn't be happening again in the same area.
"It's deceiving. You can't tell where it's at."
Two evacuation centers have been set up to help residents displaced by the Brins Fire, one in Sedona and the other in Flagstaff. About six people spent the night Sunday in the Sedona shelter. Monday, officials still were trying to convince hold-outs to leave.
"You could put your life in danger. You could endanger the lives of the people that have to rescue you," Neitzel said. "We're not going to just leave you. We need to know who you are and where you are because God forbid something happens. It just puts everyone in a bad place. . . . It could happen so quickly that you don't have time to act effectively."
Tom Barry left for a shopping trip Flagstaff on Sunday and couldn't get to his home when he returned. Sheriff's deputies had to rescue his dog. He left his groceries at a friend's house and spent the night at a local hotel.
Barry lives about five miles into Oak Creek, where he runs a business, Caring Solutions, from his home, coordinating home healthcare for ill and disabled clients.
Barry spent Monday morning trying to get an escort to his home to retrieve his cell phone and other records that would allow him to get in touch with his clients and their caregivers.
That was about all he could think of as he watched flames shooting up behind the mountains.
To get to his home, "The fire would have to cross the road, cross the creek, get over the rim," Barry said. "I'm not too worried. I'm worried about my clients.
"I'm doing a lot better now that there's some hope of getting in touch with clients and caregivers. It was really frustrating at first."
Downtown, Sue Brewer stopped to snap a picture of the smoke cloud that hung overhead, a thick white plume that never went away.
At night, Brewer and her husband, Bill, who are visiting from Amarillo, Tex., could see the flames on the mountain. By day, they watched helicopters drop water.
"We came down through that yesterday," Bill Brewer said. "It's too bad."
"It's beautiful country," Sue Brewer said. |
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0619Wildfire19-ON.html
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| azcentral.com wrote: |
Weather hurting battle against Sedona-area blaze
Christopher Kline
azcentral.com
Jun. 19, 2006 02:44 PM
Weather conditions continued to hurt firefighting efforts near Sedona on Monday afternoon.
12News Weather Plus Meteorologist Bill Kelly said a combination of high winds and high temperatures was pushing flames from the Brins Fire into dense forest and would continue to do so until at least sunset.
By midafternoon, the temperature in Sedona climbed to 100 degrees with winds peaking at 36 miles per hour.
Kelly said firefighters could expect triple-digit temperatures to hover for several hours before dropping off near dinnertime.
Winds were expected to diminish in intensity with each hour of the afternoon, calming to almost zero by midnight, the National Weather Service said.
Tuesday's forecast called for much of the same, with winds again picking up and temperatures climbing to near 100 degrees, Kelly said. |
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0619fireweather19-ON-CR.html
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paintninaz
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 3515
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Shawn wrote: |
Just a matter of ignition, is it fate that ignites it by a cigarette versus lightning? Is lightning any more "natural" than a careless human?
Dammed if I know . . . . |
Lightning is an uncontrollable “natural” occurrence, not much we can do about it. Careless humans, while “natural” in the respect that no individual is perfect, have the capability to control their actions, to be less careless. People having campfires when they are told not to, or flicking cigarettes out of windows, when they know the possible dangers are not “naturally” careless. They choose to partake in a blatant disregard for the environment. Wildfires are inevitable. Participation in starting one does not have to be.....just my opinion of course.
| azbackpackr wrote: |
| Whether man-caused or lightning-caused it is basically inevitable that if you build your home in a biologically fire-adapted area and you do not do a lot of clearing around your home, nor use fire-retardant materials in your home's construction, eventually it is going to burn down. |
Very true! 
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~Tracy
“Friends make the bad times good — and the good times unforgettable.” |
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| azfamily.com wrote: |
Crews try to keep Arizona wildfire out of canyon
05:04 PM Mountain Standard Time on Monday, June 19, 2006
By The Associated Press
SEDONA, Ariz. (AP) -- The Brins Fire burning out of control near the scenic Oak Creek Canyon of Northern Arizona started as a campfire at a campsite believed to be used by transients.
Crews are trying to keep the eleven-hundred-acre wildfire from spreading from high mountain plateaus into Oak Creek Canyon.
Lying in the wildfire's path, 400 homes and businesses that have been evacuated.
The fire is about a half-mile from some homes but no buildings had been damaged as of Monday afternoon.
Fire officials originally gave the fire's size at about three-thousand acres based on a visual estimate. However, better mapping shows it was actually 1,138 acres burned. |
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20060619_brins_oak-creek-canyon.a19dbfbf.html
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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According to channel 3, the entire Coconino NF will be closed at 8 AM this friday.
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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 It's official... http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news/2006/6-19-06-forest-closes.shtml
| Coconino National Forest wrote: |
Coconino National Forest Closes Friday
For Immediate Release
June 19, 2006
Contact: Forest Closure Info Center - 928-226-4601
Flagstaff, AZ - As fire danger increases across the Southwest the Coconino National Forest will close to public access and use Friday, morning, June 23 at 8:00 a.m..
Effective Friday, the Coconino National Forest will close to public access. Conditions have warranted closure of the entire national forest. Closures in the past have proven to be an effective means of reducing the number of human-caused fires.
“While campfire and smoking restrictions have been effective in terms of minimizing the number of fires, we are at the point that we cannot afford the risk of any human-caused fires,” says Coconino Forest Supervisor Nora Rasure. “Several recent fires have exhibited extreme fire behavior, including the Woody and Brins Fires. We are not only concerned about the risk to communities and natural resources, we are concerned about the potential difficulties evacuating recreationists from remote areas should a wildfire start.”
Included in the Coconino closures:
- All campgrounds, day use picnic areas and cabins on the forest.
- All trails on the Coconino National Forest.
- All lakes, including Lake Mary, Ashurst Lake, Kinnikinick Lake, Blue Ridge Reservoir, Stoneman Lake.
- Cinder Hills Off-Highway Vehicle Area north of Flagstaff.
- St. Joseph’s Youth Camp near Mormon Lake.
- Arizona Snowbowl Skyride.
- All National Forest System Roads will be closed, but all interstates, state and county roads through the Coconino National Forest will remain open.
Sedona and Flagstaff still offer many summer attractions and activities. Private campgrounds and the campground at Fort Tuthill County Park near Flagstaff will remain open with campfire and smoking restrictions. All Forest Service offices and visitor centers will be open. The closure will be lifted when sufficient precipitation is received to adequately reduce the risk of wildfire to a manageable level, and hot, dry weather conditions are not forecast to continue.
For further information about closures and restrictions in the Coconino National Forest, call
928-226-4601 or toll-free 1-877-864-6985 between 6:00 A.M. and 10:00 P.M. Information is posted on the internet at www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino. |
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IGO
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to sound selfish but that includes both the August and September GHOTM plans doesn't it?
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir |
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mike
What box?
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Possibly.
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dabreeze
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 50
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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guess I was right on the forest closure. just got back from photographing the last of today's plane and helicopter drops. best info so far was a smoldering vagrant fire set off the blaze. danger besides downslope winds is the tumbling debris from the high, steep rims to the canyons below. fire is basically moving northward along the west rim of oak creek canyon fueled by SW winds. incredibly steep terrain, canyon after canyon all the way to west fork and then a couple more and then the coconino plateau below flagstaff. what a tragedy already and if it takes out north wilson trail, sterling pass, and god forbid west fork, we will have lost some of the most beautiful fall (hell all year round!) trails in the state. as a landscape photographer, this is just hell!!
check here: http://www.pbase.com/sedonamemories/p_cvii around 9pm for a whole lot more images from today.
and pray for two things: some luck in controlling this one; and an early start to the monsoon season. the inception and intensity of the monsoon will be the determining factor in how long the forest stays closed. and don't think there won't be equal pressure to close other NFs statewide. Especially given the weather forecast is for a lot of dry lightning from an upper level trough coming through tomorrow and Weds.!!
Say those prayers! |
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azhiker96
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1419
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| Posted: 6/19/2006, 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Dang, a smoldering vagrant fire. Why cant people extinguish their vagrants properly when they're done with them? 
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