Changing Times

[kurthzone]

I recently posted a topic on the trip log forum about a car camping trip to the Big Lake area in the White Mountains near Mt. Baldy. This is an area that I have been going to and enjoying since I was six years old. My father taught me the fundamentals of trout fishing along the West Fork of the Little Colorado. Caught the biggest fish I've ever caught at Crescent Lake. All of my children, ages 33 down to 7 have been there numerous times in their lives. Most all of these experiences in the past have involved staying at any of the several campgrounds near Big Lake. Although I don't do very much car camping anymore and haven't done it at all in several years, I thought it would be a nice thing to do with my daughters. And it was. However there were a couple of things that really disturbed me. When we first set up camp on Thursday there were hardly any campers in the camps adjacent to us. Boy did that change. By Friday evening there was not a vacant camp. The forrest was filled with the noise of babies crying, radios blasting, engines revving, loud generators, dogs barking, people yelling. The road in front of our camp was a continual parade of dog walkers, roller bladers, bikers, cars, trucks, forrest rangers, camp hosts. A large trailer put in next to us and the occupants proceeded to set up a kennel in their back yard so to speak. They put three small dogs in there and I couldn't tell you what breed, but they barked and barked and barked. Wow, I suppose the owners were immune to them. Why did they bring them? Maybe they couldn't sleep unless the dogs were barking. They stayed in that kennel the entire weekend. Forgive me Lord for I thouht about doing bad things. Thought I wouldn't have to be bothered by a thumping sub woofers while enjoying the great outdoors. Wrong! I thought this guy was gonna start flashin gang signs. The last night we were there a car alarm went off. They must have been really drunk or something because it would keep going off and everytime it took about 5 minutes to quit. I don't think all of this bothered my daughters as much as did me. Maybe this sounds cliche to you, but it did not used ot be this way. Seems to me people had more respect for one another. What happened? Is it just a side effect of population growth? I really don't think it will ever revert back. Too bad.
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;o)>

[maryphyl]

And now you know why you need to go farther and farther out to find a wilderness feeling. It is there--you just have to work a bit to find it. Mary
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Shikekeh hozhoogo naasha.
I walk in beauty.

[Daryl]

Welcome to organized campgrounds. The organized campgrounds are easily accessable to a creature I call the moron. The moron tends to do a lot of things that don't make sence. Thanks to safety devices and warning lables (eliminating Darwin's theory of evolution) the moron has been able to survive and breed and run rampant in society today.

I prefer finding a dirt road somewhere and drive down it until I find the perfect secluded camp site. The morons have a harder time finding the good spots when they are not numbered or paved.
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[evenstar]

Sounds like camp host and or Rangers weren't doing their jobs.
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John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902

[ck1]

Stan, I feel your pain...
Unfortunatly the experience you describe is all too often the case "now-a-days". I believe I posted after our summer adventure last year about the guy at the campsite next to ours at Natural Bridges who insisted on standing atop the picinic table, yelling into his cell phone "Guess where I"m calling from".

I'd say that the cause, if there is such a thing, is three-fold...population increases, as you mentioned, but more specifically population of people "using" the outdoors has increased dramatically (I can remember 8 years ago when NOBODY knew what a carabiner was, now everyone's got one as a keychain)...and the third reason is a decrease in personal accountability for our actions...we want to do what we want when we want in the manner we want...and god help you if you try to stop us!...when I was a kid, if school called home for any reason, I was in serious trouble...not so today...hell kid's in the chicago burbs beat the tar out of each other, then sue the schools when they aren't allowed to attend prom....we have nightly pleas from weathermen to "watch your kids around water"...pardon my language but "NO poopie!"...why do people need to be reminded? Because we aren't holding ourselves(and others) accountable for our actions...I was at pine flat two weekends ago, at the fs campground...guy walking his dog...dog takes a dump right on the campground road...I mean, in the middle of the road...and the guy keeps walking...so I clear my throat and offer up a "ya going to take care of that?"...to which I get the reply "it's not my problem!"...huh? Where does this mentality come from?

Stan, it's a shame that the experience couldn't have been the same for your daughters as it was for the 33 year old...but...knowing you...I'm certain it was an experience the kids will remember...mainly because you did it with them....they don't know how it used to be...nor do they care...they just enjoyed the time with dad. (or, at least I hope they enjoyed it )
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-Colin

"The Journey is the Destination"

[ck1]

[k9hiker]

I've seen this creature, the Moron, too. The male and female of the species are kind of a doppleganger, yah shape shifter type. They can look like totally normal people an then all of a sudden, bang, they speak or do something! Unfortunately, thye breed rather quickly too.

CK1 you are the same age as I am, and I relate and agree with what you said. I think our age group is a weird mix of kids who still had parenting in their lives so we grew up okay and kids who didn't so they became morons. Of course there is also the possiblity that every generation has both these groups and those who are not of the moron species are always in a constant "battle" to avoid and ignore these individuals??? ACK!
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Jamie
Canine Hiking Club of AZ
www.mydog8az.com

[kurthzone]

I think they do exist in all generations, but the moron to considerate-law-abiding-caring-thoughtful human population ratio is shifting to the moron side of the scale. I think it is getting harder to get far enough away from it too; as evidenced by the moron activity we witnessed at Reavis Ranch just recently. Thought we were outback enough. Wrong. I'll post some photos on the site a little later today.
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;o)>

[Daryl]

Want to get rid of the Moron? Get rid of the seat belt law and other similar laws, sell power tools without safety guards... I bet removing the warning lable on the blow dryer that says "don't use while sitting in the tub" alone would solve half the problem.
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[kurthzone]

"Here's your sign"
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;o)>

[Nighthiker]

Moron, likely but the root cause is that most people are not polite.

[RU Kidding]

Exactly why I NEVER!! use developed campgrounds!

[snick33]

I've camped many times in the Cholla campgrounds on Lake Roosevelt, and never had a bad time. Either I'm obivious to my surroundings, or damned lucky. We usually spend the day hiking and I do take my time selecting a site, maybe this is the difference.
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Mother nature really likes us, and not just because we taste like chicken.