Did you vote?

Kristyn · Posted: 11/8/2004, 1:41 pm Post subject:

As always you make me proud! Very Happy

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Formerly known as snow22_5150.

jmzblond · Posted: 11/8/2004, 4:51 pm Post subject:

jmzblond · Posted: 11/8/2004, 5:08 pm Post subject:

BoyNhisDog · Posted: 11/8/2004, 5:34 pm Post subject:

That is one Bad Blond!
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Arizonaheat · Posted: 11/8/2004, 6:13 pm Post subject:

That's why they call her Blond James Blonde, no matter which way u spell it.

I couldn't agree more about the people on this site, they are the absolute best.
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cactuscat · Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 459 Location: Phoenix

Nice speech, J Me. Mr. Green

I appreciate your points about marriage - in fact sometimes I wonder whether we should even be fighting for it, or whether the whole institution is just archaic. But marriage is more than just a "piece of paper"; as you know it comes with a long list of rights, privileges, and responsibilities. Straight people can take it for granted because you know that you're free to do it, or choose not to do it at anytime - the point is we are NOT free to make that choice. Straight people can get married anytime to anyone they'd like; they don't have prove their relationship, or even that they know the other person! Witness the 36 hour marriage of Britney Spears to whoever, or many other celebrity and non-celebrity "marriages" which make a joke of the whole thing - why is that okay, but not two loving, committed people who actually want to marry and spend their lives together? The commitment that Misty and I made is certainly valid to us, but no - it's not enough. If I were to be hospitalized today, she could be denied the right to make decisions about my care, or even to see me in the hospital. If she were to die tomorrow, I'd have to fight her mother for ownership of our house and property. And we can still be legally discriminated against regarding housing and jobs. Many people want to not only ban gay marriage, but also civil unions, domestic partnerships, and anything else that recognizes our relationships or gives us any kind of rights ... it really doesn't seem fair when it's happening to you - and honestly, I don't see how anyone can think it's fair.

I agree that the people on this site are awesome - I consider many of you my friends; some I haven't even met yet! And I'd be happy to share a trail (or NO trail!) with any of you. Mr. Green

Davis2001R6 · Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 5591 Location: Italy

I have to agree with you there CactusCat, Jaime nice speece but it's easy for us to say that we are free to do what we choose and that marriage is just a piece of paper, but they are not free to make tht choice.

jmzblond · Posted: 11/9/2004, 12:23 pm Post subject:

Cat, I'll admit right off the bat that I might be speaking out my arse, but regarding medical decisions and estate trustees, can't those be assigned to whomever one choose's via living wills, establishing a trustee, power of attorney in case of diminished capacity, etc.?? Can't those things be set up ahead of time by an attorney so that you have legal rights?? I know that I have such paperwork in place in case of something unexpected happening to me. I don't want my boys' father to have custody or have access to any moneys, property, assets, and the like that the boys would be entitled to. So I established a will naming the boys as beneficiaries. Everything would be put into a trust that has a named individual of my choosing (family friend, no blood or marriage relation) as the trustee until the boys are of certain ages. It also grants custody to individuals not related by blood or marriage. Now, the father is aware of these things, and has also agreed, so that worked well in my favor. I also have a living will with inclusions and exclusions also of my choosing deciding who is to be notified, who has authority over what in my absence or diminished capacity, etc. And all necessary parties have copies of all the documentation. Why couldn't you both establish something similar yet tailored to your specific needs and concerns??
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Blond, James Blond... double "O", uh oh!!

"The romantic lifestyle of goats leaves a lot of time for digesting books" Charlotte La Chevre, (taken from "Conversations With A Goat" by Robert Shekter)

cactuscat · Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 459 Location: Phoenix

We could, but why should we have to wade through all that red tape? Why isn't our marriage certificate enough so that we don't have to worry about every little detail that may come up? Also, those things don't always hold up when it counts - angry families have been known to sucessfully challenge same-sex partners rights, even when legal documents have been filed.
It's like what happened at work recently - I work for what is considered a really good employer for all sorts of minorities. They have a "committed partner" program that's pretty good - but it's definitely not equal. Just to get Misty included under my flight benefits, we had to provide several forms of proof that we share a home and financial responsibility, and that we've been in a committed relationship for at least six months, we had to show bank statements and have things notarized and it took several attempts before everything was all in order and processed. All straight couples have to do is turn in the marriage certificate (which we did). And still, the benefits are not the same as for married straight couples - legal spouses of employees get to fly completely for free anywhere, anytime; but "committed partners" still have to pay taxes on whatever their ticket would have cost, and some of the airlines don't allow them to get any industry discounts at all. So we have to do much more work for much less benefits.
This is just one small example, but things like this happen every day, sometimes on a small scale and sometimes much larger.
But again, the main point is we have no choice in the matter. Yes there are ways for us to protect ourselves and each other, but there are also some things that we have no protection against, or no alternative way to get what we need. There is no way for us to take advantage of tax breaks that married people get, for instance.

jmzblond · Posted: 11/9/2004, 1:35 pm Post subject:

I wanted to let you know that the things I said weren't "just a speech". I feel and believe in the things I said. I didn't say them for pats on the back or anyone's approval. I said what I said from my heart... just so you know. Also, I'm interested in you and your life and your feelings and opinions as I am w/ all my friends. I hope I'm not coming off any other way. I'm trying to help, offering suggestions, asking questions, etc. I hope you also know that.

My opinions come from personal experiences, and my feelings from being matrimonially soured. So please take that into consideration. I don't wish your struggles on you or anyone. I feel terrible about the difficulties you face. I just didn't want you to take out your frustrations or anger on the wrong people, that's all. I'm not you, I never claimed to know exactly how you feel, nor was I trying to insinuate that I have all the answers. I was just trying to relate and find some common understanding hoping to find some mutual respect. Living a straight life isn't necessarily ideal either, but I understand it is very different. If I can offer you nothing else of ease and comfort, you at least have my friendship.

P.S. Not trying to be a pain, but weighing my current situation financially, it is more beneficial for me not to marry. I have more tax breaks and credits remaining single. This I speak as a tax accountant!! So for all of you out there that are wondering.... there won't be any "bells" ringing for me anytime soon!!
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Blond, James Blond... double "O", uh oh!!

"The romantic lifestyle of goats leaves a lot of time for digesting books" Charlotte La Chevre, (taken from "Conversations With A Goat" by Robert Shekter)

Kristyn · Posted: 11/9/2004, 1:52 pm Post subject:

Cactuscat, one thing I do want to point out is that you can get to people a lot better if you talk in the manner that you have. I know you are angry, I am sorry that you have to go through this. I don't understand why it has to be that way, but unfortunately, this country has not come to accept "same-sex relationships" as it should. All my point was that the more people that accept or deal with this, the more people you have on your side to fight for the right to have the same benefits as straight couples. I know that you won't get to people being angry, I know it is easy for me to say. I am not going through this, but from my side, for me personally, I know I will be a lot more receptive if I understand.

Try and stay positive and focus on your love for Misty. The road is long and hard for both of you, but I think with time, those that are against you will get their heads out of their arse. Very Happy

In the mean time, get your frustrations out on hiking and climbing!!! I'd join you anytime! (Well when I am free. porridge work!)
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Formerly known as snow22_5150.

cactuscat · Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 459 Location: Phoenix

I didn't mean anything negative by calling it a "speech" - what you said was interesting and thoughtful, and I'm actually enjoying this discussion (or is it a debate?).
I appreciate your questions and suggestions, and I know that you don't harbor any ill will - nor do I.
I argue my case passionately because someone has to. And I like being able to point out a thing or two that maybe someone hasn't considered before - I'm open to other people's viewpoints as well, but of course there's no changing my mind on this issue; I'm not going to suddenly say "hey, I was wrong - it's okay that I'm being discriminated against, I'm not going to complain".
Thanks, Jaime - and everyone else who's offered friendship, kind words and support both on this board in and PM's. You guys rock!

plummer150 · Posted: 12/26/2004, 8:36 pm Post subject: re:

4 more years!
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