New site...Old site

[Daddee]

I appologize in advance for this post - but I was up most of last night thinking about it.

Several recent posts have gone around indicating various levels of displeasure with the closure of HAZ (I know it is "the site that will remain unnamed" but for the purpose of this topic I will use the nickname we all came to know and love). While the sentiments expressed are all valid - and I agree with most of them - I would like to put it in a little different light. Bear with me...

When HAZ shut down I too was VERY upset. That site had come to mean a lot for me and was a fantastic source of information and entertainment. As with most of you I made some very good friends through that site - some of whom I still have yet to actually meet face to face.

The site that was created was something unique - the atmosphere, the detail, the info, the community - all very special and well maintainied. I would refer to it as a work of love. You just don't put the kind of work into a site like that - for free no less - unless you love what you are doing.

All by one man - all at the expense, time, tallent and effort of one man.

I don't know his reasons for closing the site. I don't know why he didn't warn us about its imminent demise. I submit to all of you, however, that he did what he felt was best - not out of mean spiritedness or spite - but just in the manner he deemed the best for all involved.

Anyone involved in the site for long knew that Teva loved the site and was friends (at least online) with many of us. Just ask Rick (Snick33) - or Hooli, or GTG or Mike. I mention Rick because he was the recipient of some particularly touching posts from Teva, and I communicated with Teva about Rick's cancer condition a number of times as well. Teva is a good man - a recluse, but a good man.

I think (and mind you, this is just speculation) that HAZ was shut down cold turkey, because I don't think Teva could have done it if he had witnessed the outcry from the members. Perhaps he was indeed tired of managing the site and wanted done with it - but didn't want to see or deal with the hassle of being the man to figure out what to do with all the people that needed the forum. So, like tearing off a bandage, he just quit cold turkey to try and minimize the pain to himself. Possibly not the best way to go, and definitely not the way I would have done it - but it is at least a possibility.

Bummed as I am at the demise of HAZ, and dissappointed as I may be with the method of shutting it down that Teva chose - I will forever be grateful that he started the site to begin with. This site is the offspring of that site. We wouldn't be here now if that site hadn't existed to begin with.

We will build something special here too - and hopefully come close to what Teva built. Perhaps, if we are lucky and persistent, we may even build something better. I hope we can, and I think it is possible.

Like I said - sorry about this - but I had to get that off my chest. I sincerely hope that I have not offended anyone with this post. It just makes me a little sad when I think about the other site - and I prefer to think about the positive reasons why someone acts the way they do.

There has not been a lot of negative backlash thus far - and I am by no means saying that it isn't justified. I just wanted to pose another possibility for contemplation.

Thanks for listening (reading)

Jared
_________________
"Only small minds want always to be right."
- Louis XIV

"...haven't you lived long enough to know that two men may honestly differ about a question and both be right?"
- Abraham Lincoln

[evenstar]

Good post Jared, and I'm in strong agreement with most of it. And yes, I considered Teva my friend....and still do I have a number of friends I've lost contact with over the years.....didn't end my feelings for them. And more than one friend has pissed me off over the years without ending our friendship. I'd like to hear from him and make sure he's OK. I know he suffered a pretty bad fall on Squaw nighthiking but told me he was fully recovered. Hope he wasn't covering up.
And look at all the good people I've come to know all because of Teva Joe. I'm disppointed at losing HAZ, but it's being nicely replaced thanks to the effort of several of those same good people. But Teva joe's irreplaceable.
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John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902

[mike t]

Couldn't agree more. HAZ was Joe's site. I see no reason that he couldn't operate it as he saw fit. (including ending it) Yeah, I was bummed. I had a little withdrawl. I miss the TrailDex. But we'll get it put together here. I also learned a few things too, like saving trail descriptions and e-mail addresses that I was afraid would clutter up my computer. I got plenty of enjoyment out of HAZ. For free. Without SPAM. Without ads. Without flaming/name calling/abuse. I just can't be unhappy about that.
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Mike T
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less is more

[GTG]

I'll agree with all of the above. I have no ill feelings towards Joe or anything he did.
If you think of all the hours he put into the site, it's a wonder he had time to hike at all.
I am thankful for what he has done and the group he gathered, and wish him nothing but the very best in any of his endeavours.

GTG
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Good things come to those who walk.

[dennisbench]

All I can say is that all of the first hikes I did when I moved here were found on HAZ. A warning would have been in order, especially with the fact that many people contributed to the site's content. All in all I am glad I found that site, and now am able to interact with you all on this wonderful site.
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"In the first place you can't see anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees...When traces of blood begin to mark your trail you'll see something, maybe."
-Ed Abbey

[ck1]

All the various posts on this topic indicate that HAZ was important to people. When people loose something important, they experience stages of loss...if you check out the posts...you can literally pick out the different "stages" ... disbelief ... anger ... saddness ... acceptance...

Each person progresses through these stages at different speeds...
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-Colin

"The Journey is the Destination"

[srlatty]

Daddee,
Joe brought us all together in a wonderful world called HAZ. We were all fat and lazy and having a wonderful time on a site that had everything we ever needed! Bad thing is, a lot of us (not so much me) put all that content into that place. Then Joe took it all away without so much as a "Thank You". Thank you for giving me all your trail descriptions. Thank you for giving me the directions to all the discreet trailheads. Thank you for making this the best site for Arizona hiking on the web! Oh yeah, The site is shut down: Thank you Arizona.

I'm not bitter! And I won't mention HAZ again on this site, unless it's in response to a post from Joe himself!
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Steve

[Canyon Dweller]

If it was not for HAZ I would not of done Picacho Peak or Granite Mountain. I thot I'd never hike in the Prescott area. I really have to thank Joe for what he had going on then. I'm glad that we are able to meet here now that HAZ is gone.
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Mountains are there to be climbed!

"Meaningless! Meaningless," says the teacher, "Utterly Meaningless, Everything is meaningless."-Ecclesiastes 1:2