Rattlesnake Ramblings from Arizonaheat

[Arizonaheat]

The warm weather woke them earlier than usual, plus there seems to be a bumper crop from the last birthing, making it the most active year in over a decade. Once they wake up, get fed and situated, and the weather gets consistent, they will settle in and there tempers will mellow. In the meantime pay attention they really are everywhere right now even if you don't see them, you are walking right past them.
_________________
Our lives are not determined by what happens to us but by how we react to what happens, not by what life brings to us, but by the attitude we bring to life.

[whereveriroam]

Does anyone know if those Sawyer kits work? From what the local news idiots always say; there's nothing you can do besides getting medical attention ASAP. I'm wondering what you can do if your unfortunate and get bitten at nightfall on a backpacking trip, you can't hike out and by the time daylight arrives it's been 9-11 hours.

[k9hiker]

I have talked with many people about this topic since it's a big issue among us dog hikers. Most vets and human medical people will tell you, getting to medical attention is the best method. Don't waist time trying to kill the snake so you can find out what kind it was for the doctor. Don't use cut two slits near the bit and try to suck the blood out. Don't use snake bite kits the usually just damage the skin. Don't put ice on it. A LOOSE tourniquet is okay but probably a waste of time too. Just stay calm, keep hydrated, and get to help.

That's what I have heard now what is reality?
_________________
Jamie
Canine Hiking Club of AZ
www.mydog8az.com

[Shihiyea]

I don't know the answer to that question, but I remember a few years ago, a lady being bit, actually several times, and possibly losing her arm. The reason she was bit so many times, she felt she needed to bring in the snake, so that it could be identified. They made it clear on the news, that identifying the snake was not worth having multiple bites.

I've only encountered 2 snakes, both, told me they were there, and I yielded, until they moved away. My thoughts, there are only a certain amount of rattlers in Az. I'm certain the doctors, with a little help from those who were there, will be able to narrow it down, to what snake it was that bit them.

Mary

[Suzaz]

Last summer, while on a camping trip, Harley and I were gathering firewood and came across what I thought was a gold mine of wood. Major mistake! As I stepped toward the pile of wood I heard what I initially thought was a gazillion bees. I flew straight up in the air and backwards probably 10 feet....scrambled to my feet got the heck out of there.....thankfully Harley flew with me! Never saw it.....but I felt it and heard it.

[GTG]

The Sawyer Extractor is your best bet. It requires no cutting, it's simply a vacuum pump. It'll work for bee and scorpion stings too. A five year old can use it. See the pictures of me on the Ridgeline Hike from last year.

No ice, no heat, no sucking, no fire, no cutting, no booze, no dope, no balms, no mortises, no asprin, no pills, nothing needs to be applied to the bite or the area around it.

You do not need to know what kind of snake it was, don't waste time trying to kill it and bring it in. Most of your antevenins stored in local hospitals are a cocktail of thirty or more snake venoms from North and South America as well as some exotics liked by collectors and hobbyists from around the world, so it's a catch-all dose.

Remain calm and get medical attention promptly. Remove any jewelry, sleeves, watches, handcuffs etc. The bitten area should swell to three or four times it's normal size.

Leave the snakes alone in the first and second places. You're on their turf, remember that. Don't kill them either, a dead snake is worth a thousand rats or mice at least.

GTG
_________________
Good things come to those who walk.

[whereveriroam]

Hey GTG I tried finding pictures of your ridgeline hike in the gallery and couldn't, I'm I looking in the right area? Anyway did you get bite? If so by what? I'm not trying to stir the pot and must say you give good advice on what to do if bitten but I've heard that you do need to know if you got bitten by a Mojave since their venom is different than other rattlesnakes and they look very much like Diamondbacks. I have looked at many pictures of Rattlers, found out what snakes I may come across in the area I'm going too and have been able to identify the ones I 've come across, so far. I have yet to kill a rattlesnake that I've come across, I believe that they should be left alone and are beneficial to the enviroment but I may someday if I have too. A gunshot from trained hands is a pretty efficient way of catching one and do disagree with you that your on snakes turf when you go outside. You must remember until the past 150 so called civilized years mankind has lived outside for 1000's of years, and in some cases eaten them Tastes like chicken!

[Hikngrl]

Got a sawyer extractor yesterday. I have been meaning to get a snake bite kit for a while now so I could have it with me just in case.... I will always give the sanke the right of way and will only stay long enough to get a few good pictures but I am one of those people like GTG and HIG who feel the need to be prepared for what ever happens....Now I have one more thing to carry in my pack where ever I go....
_________________
~~~Diane~~~

I want to shine!

[GTG]

Sorry about that, the pictures were Arizonaheat's picture from Epic #2. They were on another site. pre our Gallery.


GTG
_________________
Good things come to those who walk.

[Arizonaheat]

Page one of this thread also has a close up crop of GTG with the Sawyer Extractor,
along with pictures of snakes you will encounter in our area.

Everything Todd said is correct. Also never use electric shock treatment . This was usually done with DC power through the use of 9 volt batteries.

One of the most important things is to keep the person who was bit calm, or if you are by yourself you better be able to keep you cool and think straight. Going into shock is a real threat and is potentially more dangerous than the bite itself. Especially if it happens to be a dry socket bite ( one in which no venom was injected), but you are having heart failure from the experience, going into a panic, leading to shock, then possiblly death over a dry bite.

Yes venom from the Mojave is different, it is a neurotoxin. They say it is 22 times more potent than Diamondback venom, I have even read 44 times. I believe the same antivenom is used regardless. Like Todd said it is a cocktail.

You can only be given the antivenom once.

I have seen more snakes the last two times out than I have the last 4 years ,total, be careful right now, until they settle in. You may not see them but I guarantee you are walking within feet of them without knowing it.
_________________
Our lives are not determined by what happens to us but by how we react to what happens, not by what life brings to us, but by the attitude we bring to life.

[whereveriroam]

I hear you Arizona Heat on the Rattlesnakes being out there. We had 2 encounters in the past week. Yesterday we found a fresh kill 4' Diamondback someone put a bullet into. That was in Peters Canyon in the Superstitions and last week we ran into an 18" Great Basin (I think) in South Canyon off the North Rim of the G.C..

[GTG]

[GTG]

[whereveriroam]

It looks like I did stir the pot on this one after all. Before this turns into a 2nd grade sand lot argument I'd like to apologize to GTG if I insulted his intelligence. I'll be more than glad to continue the discussion with anyone on mankind's role in the world, ammo selection or any other thing on the trail or over a few beers than drag the other 300 (and counting) members into it on this fine site. Now I did find out some useful info on snake bites that we can all use and/or know. "Time is tissue" says Dr. Sean P. Bush, he's the guy with the long hair and glasses who has the TV show on venomous bites shown on the Animal Planet. He works the ER room at Loma Linda University Hospital in California and his speciality is venoumous bites. Basically he says the longer you wait the more dead tissue that may have to be removed. So to answer my above question on getting bite at nightfall on a backpacking trip the answer I guess is your screwed. He also says the best snakebite 1st Aid is a cell phone and helicoptor. On determining how bad the bite is, rapid swelling is a sure sign it's a bad bite and for treatment there's a new preferred snake venom out there called Cro Fab, it has less side effects than the older one made by Wyeth-Ayerst and seems to work better on rattlesnake bites. Better make sure you got health insurance for this one, I read it goes for $10000 a vial and they start you off with 4-6 of them! Contrary to the belief that they stick it in your butt it's administrated thru an IV and there's a method of watching the spread of venom inside the victim by marking the skin with a pen every 15-20 minutes near the bite area progressing away from the wound. Now for everyone who has a Sawyer snake bite kit out there (including me) read this link; www.acep.org/1,33337,0.html Hope this helps.

[evenstar]