The Bane of my Recent Hikes

[BoyNhisDog]

Hi I'm Glen and I have a %^&ing knee problem.

I have thoroughly read the previous knee problem post but mine is different. I believe it is a tendon that attach's somewhere near the fibula near the knees of course and it may be the one that wraps around the back of the area just below the knee.

When it is rested up and has not be inflamed for several weeks, I can go about 7 or 8 miles depending on the terrain so maybe less in really steep terrain before it become inflamed. Again I believe it is caused by the downhills and lots or lots of repetitions. We hiked 12 miles in the Rincons last weekend and reveled in the rain and the rolling hills that sort of evoked the Scottish highlands to me. Yes I hear the theme from Rob Roy in my head the entire time. Anyway I though nothing was going to happen to my knee. I have sort of rested it for a few months and have gone on short hikes of 7 miles or less. Well at mile 8 or so it came right back and hurt like the devil for the last 4 miles coming down. My muscles could have done another 12 miles but this knee has me in a dilemma.

I am not going to be able to go on any of the longer hikes with you fine rovers until I can get this sorted out. I can go on shorter ones. I have already spoken to Mike about this. So need a hike to Seven Fall and I can do it but not Kimbal or Rincon Peak or any other of the alien things unless they no further than 7 miles total. I know way too short, sorry.

My question is;

Does anyone know anything that can be done? Exercises (not in the gym, I'm no gym rat) or any other kind of therapy. I will try it. Any help would be appreciated.
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[Shawn]

My knee problems seemed to have gotten better when I incorporated 20 min of the stair master backwards into my gym routine. That is, instead of facing the machine, I have my back to it so it works the quads. The surgeon told me about this and it seems to have made the difference. A visit to a couple PT's might help also, should be some down there who treat the college athletes.
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[evenstar]

I've seen a number of runners in my day wearing a band such as the one shown here to relieve knee pain. My understanding is it holds the tendon in place and keeps it from rubbing against the patella. Don't know if this would help your problem, Glen, but maybe worth looking at.

http://www.orthobrace.com/fla/products/37-500.htm

Would love to see you out on some of our hikes!
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[Hikngrl]

Sorry to hear about your knees Glenn. I wish I could help. Have you had your knee checked to see if you miniscus is all there? it soundsl like it could be a matter of worn miniscus.... If thats the case its surgery! EEEK!
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[Daryl]

#1 cure for knee problems = RICE (Rest, ICe, and Elevation)

Two weeks of minimal walking/standing, plus ice and elevating it at home has fixed me up twice (the last time was a few years ago).
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[CatValet]

The C is for Compression, i.e. Ace Bandage, or Knee Elastic brace. NSAIDS (Non-Steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) such as ibuprofen or naproxyn may help.

Glen- I have no idea who the hot orthopedic surgeons are on the Tucson area. Hereabouts Dr. Angelo Mattalino at Scottsdale/Shea is reputed to be the best soft tissue guy. He did an ACL for a friend of mine and a meniscus for another. Both turned out well.

If it doesn't respond to RICE and anti-inflammatories, you might want to have someone take some pictures to see whats going on in there. If intervention is warranted, the sooner the better. -R

[kurthzone]

[BoyNhisDog]

Thanks for all your replies weather they help or not. My patella is not bothering me, I do know that much. As much as I hate to go see an MD I might have to go ask. You see I grew up around MDs and they have so many different opinions that sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. Don't know if I would trust someone cutting on me. They also killed my cat. Yep they operated on her to tie her tubes and killed her up on a Reservation in North Dakota. Good cat too. Very interesting to watch.

We'll see how it goes. Maybe it's something I can strengthen. I used to put a lot of miles on my bikes and did so for years. When I rode exclusively mountain bikes I was riding 4000 miles a year and a lot of that was off road so you see what my body has taken over the years.

I'm still in for shorter hikes of 7 miles or less so I'm not down and out.
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Seize from every moment its unique novelty and do not prepare your joys
- Andre Gide

[Daddee]

Glen - there are all sorts of exercises for strengthening the knee that can be done at home and not in a gym. However, the best exercises that really isolate knee movements are best done on particular machines like leg extension or leg curl.

However, the best overall exercises for joint strengthening involve the use of balance as a tool for strength. Get online and find a physical therapy and exercise equipment seller. Look for devices that require balance. There are lots of cusion-like devices - flat but they only compress a little leaving you with an unstable platform from which to bend or do other strengthening motions. Also platforms with a rounded base are good (soft or rigid). You will be surprised at how difficult some exercises will be, but if you start small and work your way up to more complex movements and then add weight - you can really get a fantastic workout.

The instability of the platform forces multiple muscles to work in ways that you normally wouldn't expect (how often do you walk on an inherintly unstable surface? Scree doesn't count ) and work to strengthen all the muscles around a joint rather than just strengthening a particular motion (like a machine would do). The added benefit is that you aren't working just the muscles around the joint but also the "core strength" muscles involved in balance (hip flexors, abdomen and back muscles primarily).

However, for really increasing the overall strength of major muscle groups the machines still are the best bet. They are safe if used properly and really serve to focus on important major muscles.

I sympathize with not being a gym rat. I wasn't for a long time. But the benefits of working out consistently to provide therapy for my arthritic knees and my back problems far outweigh any reservations I may have about it. I solve the problem by being very focused when I go in to the gym. I don't talk to almost anyone, and I try and pay as little attention to those around me as possible. I will occasionally watch a personal trainer working to see new techniques - but that is only with certain trainers who I know are very good at what they do. I focus on what I'm doing and really work hard - then get home to the wife and son.

But in any case - the balance exercises will be a good at-home start for a remedy.

I would also consider getting it looked at. An x-ray could reveal arthritis or other bone problems and an MRI could reveal tendon or cartilage damage. If you do have a physical problem other than just inflamation - continued work could cause more harm than good. Please go and see an orthopedic doctor just to be sure.

I thought my arthritis was just tendonitis at first, then by way of several opinions I thought it was torn cartilage - but it turns out I was wrong on both counts. But I'm glad I know because now I have the proper knowledge to know how to best combat the problem.

Good luck with finding the solution to your problem.
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[BoyNhisDog]

Thanks for the great advice! I'll get to the bottom of this yet.
_________________
Seize from every moment its unique novelty and do not prepare your joys
- Andre Gide

[GeorgAz]

I had an acl reconstruction on my left knee(skiing) and two scopes on my right knee. I know allll about rehab. I would go to the U and check on the sports Docs there or ask about some PT's. A lot of therapists will take you without a scrip and they know more than some of the surgeons. There are many exercises you can do for balance and strength,which are very inportant. I also use an exercise band for resistance . Go on line and search"physical therapy rehab for tendonitis or' knee pain. Lots of info there. The "R.I.C.E." is a must!Also wear a patellar wrap. Good luck! We've all been there!You don't get this stuff from sittin' on your butt! I wish knees were made out of some stronger stuff for all they have to take!

[bzachar]

Glen,

I'm not an orthopedist so forgive me for not not knowing which is the patella, etc. Given that, what follows may or may not be the problem you're trying to solve or you may already know all this...

Like scores of other folks, since I'm right-handed my left side is the weaker side and on downhills my left knee will start to hurt but *only* after a while. On the up-hill and level ground there's never a problem. I would guess the left-handed folks have the pain develop in their right knee.

Someone much older and wiser explained to me that on the downhill we're using muscles that aren't normally used. Much like your first day skiing, you end up hurting where you didn't even know you had muscles. He went on to say that he had a friend that had had extreme discomfort coming down hill at the end of a hike and to get his friend down he had him walk down backwards. This relieved the strain on the "downhill" muscles/tendons and his friend got down. It was slow but he finished.

He suggested using a hiking stick. I've subsequently tried one and I now use it on downhills. On our last hike I used it to to unload my left knee and while my left didn't bother me, my right started to which has never happened before. This proved to me the value of the stick. Perhaps it's time for two sticks.

If you don't have one, borrow one, use the correct technique and see if it helps. Obviously, strenthening your knees is the long term goal but a stick may solve/lessen the problem in the short term.

If you've got previous knee injuries or abused your knees somehow the above does not apply and you should get professional care.

Bill

[maryphyl]

Our friend and nurse SHY recommends ibuprofen a day before and during and after a hike. This keeps the inflamation from occurring in the first place. I have been taking the stuff for arthritis in one hip but it also means no knee pain
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[BoyNhisDog]

I may try that Maryphyl.

Bill, I use a pair of Leki's on all of my hikes. Sometimes I collapse them and go a ways without them but mostly they are in use.

I have begun an excersize routine recomended by Colin and his friend. I will strengthen the hamstrings and calve muscles and I will stretch them a lot more. I went down a got some custom orthopedic Superfeet inserts and will start using them. This may take some months to overcome but I have a plan.

Thanks for all of your help each and everyone who replied. S#*t happenes and it's up to us to find a way around it. I will.
_________________
Seize from every moment its unique novelty and do not prepare your joys
- Andre Gide

[overrocked]

I am left-handed, and my right knee hurts worse! I use
a Cho-Pat knee support for help in recovering after an overuse event But the only thing i can do to help my problem is to work out at the gym with leg lifts and working the quads, since females usually are affected with knee injuries. Bodyresults of course has many suggestions, but you really kneed to get a doctor's evaluation of exactly what the problem is first.
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