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Canyon Dweller
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 712
Location: Denver, CO
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 Posted: 4/10/2003, 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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An interesting fact about Baldy: USGS surveyed the wrong point on the mountain. The actual peak is just north of the point thats surveyed at 11403. It is just off of tribal land in the National Forest. The actual hight of the mountain is unknown, but it is estimated at 11,420 feet. You take the highest contour line and add half the distance to what would be the next highest, in this case it's 20 feet. Click on this link and you'll see what I'm talking about.
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=12&n=3752957&e=632760&s=25
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Mountains are there to be climbed!
"Meaningless! Meaningless," says the teacher, "Utterly Meaningless, Everything is meaningless."-Ecclesiastes 1:2 |
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Daddee
I once was a slug.
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 2815
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: 4/10/2003, 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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If money can be made through entrance fees, then the mountain could be taken off the sacred list.
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Like I said - I don't pretend to know what the term "sacred" means - but if they decide that "sacred" means that I have to pay a price to make it okay for me to hike it - that's fine by me.
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but what
if I owned something unique like the Grand Canyon ? Would it be right for me to
deny public access ?
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If it was on your land - absolutely. If you own it, you have the rights to it. Legally - that's the way it goes (at least in our country - until the government decides to act in the interest of the public - or endangered species or whatever). Morally - well - I don't necessarily want to go there.
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"Only small minds want always to be right."
- Louis XIV
"...haven't you lived long enough to know that two men may honestly differ about a question and both be right?"
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desertgirl
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| Posted: 4/11/2003, 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| sam_hikes wrote: |
Did Baldy twice last summer and both times I asked tribe about any permits and was told it's sacred land and you had to be a tribal member.
Only the summit/peak of Mt Baldy is on the rez and the rest is controlled by US/NF. Peak is supposed to be sacred and if they wanted $$$$ they could control it like they do dayhikes into Cibicue?
I am curious about the source of this info because I would like to learn more?
| desertgirl wrote: |
| sidhayes wrote: |
| I understand that the tribe is working on a financial deal regarding access to the mountain. If money can be made through entrance fees, then the mountain could be taken off the sacred list. |
I was wondering about that sentiment....Mt.Baldy is Ok as long as you pay you way to have a permit...so are quite a few other places.
I guess this works like the "USE FEE" model ..... |
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The source is more hikers hear-say. I met a few people (in 1999) who had hike upto Baldy & returning and they said they had tribal permits to get to the peak.(since I was of the impression that you could not get to the peak unless you were a tribal member)
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Life is but a dream ...there is no end to what you can dream! |
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Guest
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| Posted: 4/11/2003, 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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When you are on indian reservation it is like being in a different country.
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To reinforce this even more; A friend of mine was driving his vehicle in the area of 101 and McDowell, on the reservation. He was pulled over becuse they said the vehicle he was driving matched the description of a stolen vehicle. He was jailed for the night. Upon release they refused to give him any paperwork stating why he was being held or that he even was held. When he returned to his vehicle it had been vandalized. If it had been anyone else I would have thought they were pulling my leg but he was very upset. The thought that my basic rights can be stripped from me just miles from my house is frightening. |
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ck1
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 1331
Location: Mesa
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| Posted: 4/17/2003, 10:30 am Post subject: |
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I've found this to be an interesting thread...I too look at Red Mtn with hiker's lust, but don't think it is an excuse to violate tribal law...I hope a land deal is possible, it would be a great valley hike!
I'd be concerned with some bad karma/mojo if I climbed it without proper permits... 
(I've been mia with out of town visitors)
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-Colin
"The Journey is the Destination" |
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maryphyl
Grand Canyon Enchantress
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 669
Location: Flagstaff
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| Posted: 4/18/2003, 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Remember that it is a federal crime--federal judge--federal sized fine.
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Shikekeh hozhoogo naasha.
I walk in beauty. |
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