Good bye Brenly

[samiam]

It's ok tracy i hope you stay right where your at...And im sure your good at something..
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Sam I Am

[Daryl]

Look at their fielding numbers at 3B. Chad Tracy = .927 Shea = .919 Shea spends most of his time at 1B where it's pretty hard to make an error (but Shea still managed 5 of them a 1B).
Shea is a good hitter, but he's also a line drive hitter. Thus he hits into a lot of double plays (he leads the team in DP). That's the easiest way to kill your team.

Not to mention Tracy has all the potential in the world, and Shea has pretty much already shown us what he can do.
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[mike]

You're comparing his fielding percentage in only 15 games at 3rd to Tracy's entire season. Hillenbrand's fielding percentage for the year is .986, not .919. Do the math... divide total putouts+assists by total putouts+assists+errors. 572 divided by 580 = .986. For the record, last year it was .978 with the Dbacks.

Ok, he's hit into more double plays, but he also has more hits, rbi's, homers, doubles, a higher average, onbase percentage and slugging percentage. You can account for a lot of the double plays being because there are guys on base ahead of him. And since when did being a linedrive hitter become a bad thing??
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[samiam]

Hey keep them both! im sure that they dont really need to trade them or one..Besides Shea is a better utility than tracy.. maybe keep tracy as a backup 3 b.What are they paid? do they cost alot to keep. will it reduce there cap? Maybe your just comparing there game but as far as i am concerned Tracy is a rookie,shea's been around a few..i think eather way you loose something weather it is experience or future potential..I hope the keep Heriston myself..now thats a guy to start building on..They got alot of farm boy's that are gonna be something good..I think that they do need to keep some veterans though. It's always good to have a guy you can look to for experience in big games..Besides number's can be confusing Personally i like Tracy, i see a certain eager spark in him i dont see in Shea..shea's to Quiet.....
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Sam I Am

[Daryl]

Can't compare numbers at 1B to numbers to 3B. Two totally different positions.

In 2003 at 3B Shea was a pathetic .903 for AZ before they moved him to 1b because he hurt the team too much. In 2002 for Bos he was .943 and in 2001 he was .941. For a decent 3B that should be .980.
Tracy's numbers at 3B aren't any better thus far this year, but most of his errors were early in the year and lately he's been much better.

Tracy is going to be a monster hitter. Don't discount him to quick like we did Overbay. He came up here on fire. Pitchers learned how to pitch him and his average dropped. When he learns how to hit the way they are pitching him, he will rock again. By the end of the year I bet he'll be over .300.

Tracy only spent 3 years in the minors before coming up, and he tore it up down there. Sky is the limit for him. Also, he played first in college but the scouts thought he'd make a better 3B, so he's fairly new to the position.

Shea makes over 4mil/year. Tracy is on a minor league contract, probably less then 1mil/year but that won't last long.
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[mike]

[Daryl]

Most errors from 3B are throwing errors on that long throw that has to be quick to get the runner. 1B has to make the play quick and throw it quick. 1B just has to catch it, thus 1B is usually where the poor fielders go. 1B rarely has to throw the ball anywhere, and when they do it's a toss back to the pitcher or a short throw to 2B or home. As I said, no comparison. 3B is much more difficult, nearly as tough SS.
As for trade value, Tracy is much more valuable then a near 30 year old that plays poor defense and makes 4+ mil.

PS Tracy was considered a much better hitter then Overbay (and he's only hitting .336 and in the leage leaders with RBI's).

Tracy over Shea any day, easily.
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[mike]

Whatever, Daryl. We'll see what happens.

[evenstar]

I'll take Tracy over both you clowns even if she hasn't played since high school
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John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
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When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902

[mike]

This is from an article titled "How the Pro Scouts Grade Player Prospects". ( http://www.cubsbetweenthevines.com/Arch203.html ) Listed in order from most to least important are the skills the scouts use to evaluate a prospect for each position (I've listed only third and first). Note that fielding is most important for a firstbaseman, whereas it's ranked third in importance for a thirdbaseman.

[dennisbench]

Don't want to get in the middle of your discussion of Shea and Tracy, but I really think it is moot, considering there is no way this team trades Tracy. Before Sexson's injury, Shea was all but gone, so its a good thing we didn't pull the trigger right away, because of the injury to Sexon. I repeat, there is no way they are going to trade Tracy next year. Shea is a solid player, I like him personally, but he is replaceable. They have no idea what Tracy is capable of, they know exactly what Shea is capable of and they know his abilites would not be too terribly difficult to replace if Tracy did not pan out for some reason. No need for us sending some team another Overbay.
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"In the first place you can't see anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees...When traces of blood begin to mark your trail you'll see something, maybe."
-Ed Abbey

[mike]

Those are all good points Dennis. At least your analysis makes sense and doesn't fly in the face of common baseball wisdom. I'm not fan of Hillenbrand at all. And I picked Chad Tracy off waivers for my fantasy baseball team at work. My point is, looking at the numbers, Hillenbrand has more value to the team right now. He's hitting over 300, driving in runs, and doing a darn good job filling in for Sexson at first. Johnson wouldn't have pitched the perfecto had Shea not made that great play early in the game. He would bring more in a trade than Tracy, and it wouldn't surprise me if he is traded before the deadline. He's been mentioned in the rumors, for sure. Tracy is an unproven commodity, a prospect with potential. Whether that pans out remains to be seen. The Dbacks have indicated they want to build the team with younger players. So, let's just hope Chad is not another Travis Lee.
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[dennisbench]

Well if Overbay's year is any indication of the Dbacks ability to develop talent, I think Tracy will turn out to be a fine third baseman for many years. We should definitely trade Shea this year to actually get something for him.
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"In the first place you can't see anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees...When traces of blood begin to mark your trail you'll see something, maybe."
-Ed Abbey

[mike]

No argument here. I just wish Overbay's talent had shown up last year! Maybe the fire sale to get Sexson wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't be staring at a sub-500 season right now.
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[dennisbench]

Yeah, we really should have kept Overbay and Shilling. Then we would have Overbay and Tracy to develop at the corners into solid players, plus still had Schilling and Johnson. Brenly would have been around at least until the end of the year, there is no way we lose 11 in a row with Johnson and Schilling both in the rotation.
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"In the first place you can't see anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees...When traces of blood begin to mark your trail you'll see something, maybe."
-Ed Abbey