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Alternatives if LCR is muddy?

 
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benthegrate





Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: 9/16/2009, 4:02 pm    Post subject: Alternatives if LCR is muddy? Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hi, folks! I'm a newbie on the board, but not to the area.

A couple of friends and I are planning on doing a round-trip Salt Trail hike into the LCR gorge in mid October. If the LCR happens to be flowing brown, however, we won't do the hike and will need an alternative 3-4 day backpack before we move to some day hiking to ruins and slots in southern Utah. (Then we meet west coast friends for a long weekend in Havasupai.)

I was thinking Thunder River, though I've never tried to get permits this late for GCNP hikes. I know this is one of the more remote areas of the park, but October is primo hiking time for it...do y'all think it'll be impossible getting a permit this late?

Any other suggestions for a nice multi-day backpack GC country, or possibly southern Utah? I've done Paria and there's no chance of us getting a permit for that anyway...

Suggestions are definitely appreciated!

Cheers!

Ben from Dallas
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Suz





Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3186

PostPosted: 9/16/2009, 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

wave Hi Ben,
Welcome to the site.
It can be very difficult to catch the LCR when it's blue.......good luck with that.

That entire area is such a wonderful part of our state/country with so much to explore. Hopefully others will jump in to offer ideas.
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kurthzone
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Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 1097
Location: Peoria, Arizona

PostPosted: 9/17/2009, 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Yes welcome to the site Ben. Very nice website you've developed. I especially like your recipe for a happy life. And just a quick question: Is Rachel Rae that bubbly behind the props?

As far as GC permits and tips you might want to PM Hnak. http://www.arizonahikers.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=58
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Hnak





Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1766
Location: Prescott, AZ

PostPosted: 9/17/2009, 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternatives if LCR is muddy? Reply to topic Reply with quote

benthegrate wrote:
Hi, folks! I'm a newbie on the board, but not to the area.

A couple of friends and I are planning on doing a round-trip Salt Trail hike into the LCR gorge in mid October. If the LCR happens to be flowing brown, however, we won't do the hike and will need an alternative 3-4 day backpack before we move to some day hiking to ruins and slots in southern Utah. (Then we meet west coast friends for a long weekend in Havasupai.)

I was thinking Thunder River, though I've never tried to get permits this late for GCNP hikes. I know this is one of the more remote areas of the park, but October is primo hiking time for it...do y'all think it'll be impossible getting a permit this late?

Any other suggestions for a nice multi-day backpack GC country, or possibly southern Utah? I've done Paria and there's no chance of us getting a permit for that anyway...

Suggestions are definitely appreciated!

Cheers!

Ben from Dallas


Thunder River would be a possibility, if that's all you were attempting. The usual Thunder River - Deer Creek loop would be really rushed to try to do it in 3 - 4 days. If you're going mid-week, there might be a possibility for permits, but I don't know for sure. This is the time of year to hike there (I'll be in the area on two separate hikes next month), so it might be worth a try.

Other ideas might be an overnighter into South Canyon (or a dayhike using the short-cut route), and/or a dayhike down Soap Creek. Lots of fun stuff in the Marble Canyon area...

Have fun!

Hank
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benthegrate





Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: 9/17/2009, 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone!

Kurthzone, Rachael IS as bubbly in person as she is on TV. There's no difference between TV Rachael and everyday Rachael, unlike a lot of TV personalities. She blamed a fart on me the first day we met.

I guess I didn't realize how hard it was to catch the LCR running blue. You always see photos of it blue...but I guess that's because people don't go there when it's not blue! Every time I'm in the region, the LCR at Cameron has been dry, and I guess that helped further my erroneous assumption that the NORMAL state of the LCR is blue. Bummer...

We will definitely focus on a backup plan. We prefer multi-day packs to day hikes, so I think I'll apply for a few different arrangements of Thunder River/Deer Creek over 5 days. (Though I do prefer a long pack in, a stationary base camp, and day hikes from camp. And Thunder River/Deer Creek loop doesn't really foster that, right?)

I was also considering Grand Gulch up in Utah...that seems to be a pretty cool place. I have done South Canyon to Vasey's (though not via the shortcut), and I've done Soap several times.
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 9/17/2009, 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

For short notice and no permit needed unless you get to Showerbath spring and beyond you might consider going in at Sowats Point and exploring around Jumpup and Kanab Creek. Kwangunt canyon (Sp??) is pretty nice.

Grand Gulch is great place, any variety of short hikes to multiday backpacks, you'll need a shuttle or do an in and out for there.

Oh, and Upper Paria/Hackberry is mostly ignored it seems and you can self permit for that area as long as not over 12 people; I think. Lots to do in that area for sure.
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maryphyl
Grand Canyon Enchantress




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 669
Location: Flagstaff

PostPosted: 9/19/2009, 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I second the Jumpup Kanab Creek idea--I have used it myself when plans fell apart.
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Suz





Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3186

PostPosted: 10/4/2009, 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

My sources say the LCR is currently running gray. It did appear to flash around 9/12-9/16...and apparently has not yet returned to the beautiful blue state. There is rain in the forecast today, Wed, Thurs and Friday for that area. When exactly are you thinking of going in there.
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benthegrate





Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: 10/4/2009, 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ooooo! Suz got SOURCES! That's great...thank you so much!!!

We're supposed to hike in on Sunday morning, a week from today... We will bail to Grand Gulch if there is ANY spike in the flow between now and then. I've been watching the gauge like a hawk. If the gauge show's a spike, we'll go straight to Grand Gulch. If the gauge shows NO spike, we will probably go to the trailhead for a peekypeek...unless Suz's sources happen to peek on Friday or Saturday and say it's still gray.

By the way, some interesting things have happened to the LCR flow in the last week. Look at the gauge:

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?09402300

You see the CFS running normally at 230cfs, and the depth at the confluence at about 5.10ft. These are normal flow rates from the springs...(ie "blue," if it's had time to settle from the most recent spike which apparently takes several weeks.)

On Sep 29/30 and Oct 4, the flow DROPPED. Not significantly, but it definitely plunges, down to around 180cfs and 4.9ft...indicating a temporary drop in spring discharge.

What would cause its normal minimum flow, which is usually a pretty straight line during times of no rain, to drop even LOWER? Freezing temps?
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desertgirl





Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 10/4/2009, 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Suz wrote:
My sources say the LCR is currently running gray. It did appear to flash around 9/12-9/16...and apparently has not yet returned to the beautiful blue state. There is rain in the forecast today, Wed, Thurs and Friday for that area. When exactly are you thinking of going in there.


I rained on us a whole lot Sad on the Hopi Rez, Flagstaff etc ...major winds
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Suz





Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3186

PostPosted: 10/5/2009, 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I'm going to "respectfully" disagree with you Ben about your spring flow idea...but I can do it via PM. Wink

The gauges and I are on a first name basis.......I check them every now and then.......oh, say 3-4 times a day. Crazy
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