Photogrpaphy Post-Production

Daddee · Posted: 5/12/2009, 11:58 am Post subject: Photogrpaphy Post-Production

I'm really working a lot recently on improving my photography skills - and more importantly my post-production skills (using Photoshop). I'm starting to see some results that I'm reasonably happy with, but I still have a lot to learn.

I know that we have some fantastic photographers on this forum and I'd like to pose a few questions to all you photography mavens out there:

How much time do you spend on post-production for various types of photos?

What is your favorite post-production program?

What is the most common and or effective tool or trick you like to use in post-production?

Help out a brother who's desperately trying to learn the ways of the photography jedi.

(BTW - I should also clarify that I'm using a DSLR - Canon XSi [although I'd love to spend a little more money and get a D50 or a T1i] and I have a full version of Adobe photoshop and attending programs, but I don't have any of the custom filter packages)
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desertgirl · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 3350 Location: Chandler, AZ

A few mins at most in LightRoom for most of my "general" photos. I spend the time getting exposure / composition correct in camera and just use a combination of Lightroom/Adobe Photoshop to minor corrections to contrast/saturation ( typically needed for most digital images). Adobe for Panoramic stiching and some sharpening on images that need it.

Minor sharpening typically punches up the image for me.

Personally - I have gone back to a point and shoot for hike photos -- its easier / lighter and consumes much less time. I now save the DSLR for when I want to focus on photography rather than hiking .... Very Happy

Daddee · Posted: 5/12/2009, 2:52 pm Post subject:

I'm talking about the myriad photoshop plugins and filters, Adobe even has a fairly good list on their website.

I had a number of friends that used the Alien Skin plug-in and really liked using it, but they were animators, and not photographers.
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"Only small minds want always to be right."
- Louis XIV

"...haven't you lived long enough to know that two men may honestly differ about a question and both be right?"
- Abraham Lincoln

BoyNhisDog · Posted: 5/12/2009, 5:44 pm Post subject:

Jared, your camera is fine. The new 500D has less noise in the higher ISOs but overall, that XSi of yours is a good camera.

A very inexpensive set of Photoshop Actions and very good tutorials is found at Tony Kuyper's Site

It is best to shoot RAW and send a 16 bit Tiff from your RAW processor to Photoshop.

Take the time to learn the Luminosity Masks from Kuyper's site. You can work with any tone or set of tones in your image with these tools. I use one or two of the Midtone masks on most every image to increase contrast. While I don't like much of his own work, I do like his tools very much. Again, you can target any tone or set of tones and work them as a Layer or from the Channels pallet. Once you learn that, you can learn to add or subtract Masks to get even more specific. They are all self feathering so no garish edges.

Also use the Saturation Masks lightly when you need it. I think he was selling everything he has made for a measly $25. Maybe he still is. I would pay that for just the Luminosity Mask actions.

To get a different sort of sharpness to my images, I often use some of the filters in Nik Color Efex. That is expensive. Nik Viveza is a great time saver with selections and and various light and color corrections. It is expensive. I use Nik Silver Efex for B&W conversion. They are have a feature called U-point that lets you work various areas of an image without tedious selections. Sometimes it works well. I do it all on Layers so I can paint in specific areas selectively for things like sharpening or other things as well. Nik has a very good sharpening plugin but I have enough knowledge to get most of the features out of the existing plugins I have from them. I may go ahead and get that some day too. There are various kinds of sharpening, some much better than others. I never use the Photoshop sharpening at all.

how much time? It varies from image to image but I can bang about five out in 20 or 30 minutes but more on some if they are very important. Good post makes a world of difference and you don't have to make an image garish to make it good. You do have to start with a good image and good light though. I'm only looking for a few good image from a trip, not the whole card.
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Matt Hoffman · Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Grantham, NH

BoyNhisDog has good, if slightly advanced, tips. If you already have photoshop though, you don't NEED to spend any additional money. Learn all you can about getting correct exposures with your camera. Photo editing should not a super time-consuming thing.

For most landscape-type photos, editing should be simple.

In PS, open your image. Duplicate it.
Go to Layers - Adjustment Layer - Levels.
Check the histogram and make sure the black and white arrows touch the edges of the histogram. If the histogram is clipped, leave it alone, and maybe hope you have a better exposure.
Learn to use Curves.
Levels and curves usually add sufficient contrast and punch to a photo if adjusted correctly.

For overall sharpening of an image, here is an easy way to do it.
Duplicate your image (background layer). Go to Image - Adjustments - Desaturate.
Then go to Filters - Other - High Pass. Select a setting of about .5 - 2 pixels. Change the blending mode of this layer to Overlay. Your image will look much sharper.

Start with the basics and go from there. The learning curve is steep, so you'll be looking for advanced techniques in no time. Have fun!
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Zarff · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Mesa, AZ

Nice tips. Thanks

Are we talking about the full version of Photoshop?
or Elements?

If Full Photoshop ....
What do you use in it that is not in Elements or LightRoom.???.
and what does it do for you / to your picture.???.

Also, anyone use Aperture.???.
Thanks
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Matt Hoffman · Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Grantham, NH

dabreeze · Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 50

Lots of good 411 here. At the most basic, and what I teach all my students, is to think about digital processing in terms of three things:
contrast; saturation; & sharpening. whether you do it in aperture, lightroom, ps elements, ps cs4, or nik it doesn't really matter. your level of sophistication can be ps adjustment layers, tony kyper's contrast masks, or just some simple adjustments in elements or lightroom.

as you go you'll gain mastery over more and more sophisticated techniques to do better & more precise work on the same three things: contrast, saturation, sharpening. your output will dictate some of what you do and you'll probably want to learn eventually how to stitch multiple images, blend images to widen your dynamic range, and maybe even use some of the perspective control tools to correct what our non-view cameras distort.

but in the beginning it's really helpful to think in simple terms. it's not a matter of all manners of special filters, secret sauce or closely-held recipes; it's just getting the basics down and gradually refining your technique.

the most readable and helpful book for landscape and nature photography that I have found is Tim Grey's "Photoshop for Nature Photographers." Spend a couple of months with this and your photography will take a quantum leap forward!

Of course, there's the old adage that if you want to take more beautiful pictures, then stand in front of more beautiful places. Surprising how much truth there is to this!!

Best of luck,

Derek von Briesen
Sedona, Arizona
www.dvbphotography.com
Southwest Perspectives Photography Workshops

Daddee · Posted: 5/14/2009, 10:06 am Post subject:

BoyNhisDog · Posted: 5/14/2009, 3:52 pm Post subject:

I think photography has made many aspects of my life possible. It has taken me into some places I might have never gone and has opened many doors.

You will progress and you do have a good plan to do so. Thinking about the technical and artistic facets will move you farther along but it is a journey, no doubt. Like any art, the trail never ends but in time, you will achieve your own look. Never stop experimenting though, use the rules but break them too. One thing that has been a major help is keeping a current photo journal with notes of places, conditions, post processing notes when they apply, etc. It gives one both a reference and a map of progression as well as a memory bank that becomes priceless. I have thousands of pages of this stuff.

Studying the work of others is valuable as is discussing it.

What makes RAW so functional is the vast amount of information you have compared to a jpeg file and the possible choices in contrast and tweaking things you can’t have with an auto-processed jpeg. I get it as close as I can in the RAW processor and then on to PS with the 16 bit Tiff for selective work that one can’t do in a RAW processor or with in-camera auto processing. The Luminosity Masks are good examples as they turn a blunt tool into a precise set of tools. Sharpening only selected areas in an image is another. The 16 bit file holds up much better than an 8 bit and leaves you with a full tonal range, no posterization and better looking shadows too. This is not saying that jpegs can’t look good because they can but once they are out of the camera they are much more set in stone regarding certain ranges of the in camera auto processing which is irreversible.
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Zarff · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Mesa, AZ

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

I have another Q though.
Mac vs PC.???.

I'm kinda looking for a new laptop. (and a new DSLR)
Which will mainly be used for internet and photo stuff.

Matt uses aperture which is a Mac Apple product.
I know a lot of people who swear by Mac, altough I have never owned one.

Any issues using photo apps on Mac vs PC.???.
Anything that you use that only works on one / not available on the other?

Thanks again
Dan
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Dan

Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

I've come to the conclusion that I need a little help with my computer/photoshop/processing skills, too. It seems that I'm grounded for a few weeks so it's an ideal time to work on this stuff.

I'm thinking about inviting the very talented Derek von Briesen from Sedona to Gold Canyon to do a photo "processing" workshop at my house. I'm curious to know if anyone else would be interested. There would be a fee (per person), and if anyone is intersted we could do a little potluck thing and make it a Potluck Picture Processing Party. Laughing

Zarff · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Mesa, AZ

I'd be interested.

Although my schedule is not that flexable.
If I'm "on shift" I won't be able to come.

How much of a cost are you thinking about.???.
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Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

PM a few options that work for you. I'll have to talk to Derek about the cost. I'm sure it will depend on how many people we have and how many hours.

desertgirl · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 3350 Location: Chandler, AZ

I'd be interested -- Group learning is always enlightening! I have learnt from Derek before & he is a great teacher!!!
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