Building my Rack ....

desertgirl · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 3350 Location: Chandler, AZ

What should I get to start building my rack and what order ...

Goal get all pro dirt cheap -- so it will take a while.
I did manage to snag a

* Metolius number 8 cam---3 inch max, 2 inch minimum for 20$

Its a good deal but not the best stuff to get early!
So now I need to get a prioirtized list going for this stuff...
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Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

I think I would grab some Tri-cams.....I love those babies and perhaps a Nut pick. Biners/ovals and webbing for slings.

Think about where you do most of your trips, the type of rock there and what would work in that sort of placement.

lzyboy · Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 201 Location: Mesa

desertgirl · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 3350 Location: Chandler, AZ

Yep -- loved the tri cams. Just need to find 'em at the right price!
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Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

I've been thinking about this myself and have come up with this---

1. We are not lead climbing yet so we aren't really thinking about quick draws or using pro that way, right? Perhaps after the next class?????

2. Most climbing experiences we will have at this point will be in specific areas with top ropes & bolts. In those places we wouldn't be looking at setting natural anchors that require all that geat....just using the bolted climbs....oval biners and those slingy things would be all that we needed, right? I'm thinking a rope might be on the list!

3. If we were to be out in the wilderness on a hiking trail or in a canyon chances are we would be slinging natural anchors with webbing and leaving it behind........right? So your pro wouldn't be used there. I do think we need some rings.......what are those rings called? Rap rings?

In my mind tri-cams can really take the place of nuts, at least at the beginning so I'd do tri-cams and spring loaded cams. Did you hear Jodie talk about the spring loaded cams that are a royal pain? She based those comments on their triggers. Stay away from those have sticks and are used with one finger. Crazy

If you find a nut pick at a decent price let me know.

fritzski · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 50 Location: Gilbert, AZ

Ambika,

I would agree with Suz, no hurry on building a complete trad rack. Probably your first step as a lead climber would be to get a good set of quick draws and then get comfortable leading bolted sport climbs.

The jump to leading trad is huge and after nearly eight years in the sport I do enjoy it, but it can still quickly intimidate me. Its almost a completely different sport and consequently I knock my lead level down roughly two full numbers from what I lead sport.

That being said, if you're still convinced you need the stuff, I have a full set of 10 DMM ultralight cams I'll let go for a steal Wink

fritzski · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 50 Location: Gilbert, AZ

Tri Cams are awesome, but are considered by most to be specialty pieces, mostly suited to horizontal placements where they excel. I have them in the small sizes and definitely appreciate their usefullness. A good set of wired nuts/stoppers is the backbone of any rack. Thankfully they're the cheapest. A couple wired hexes are also a good cheap investment for the rack to cover some larger crack sizes.

If you guys want to venture into trad climbing, my two recommendations for the local area would be the Little England Wall in QCC and the San Tans. Both user friendly and very fun / low stress.

BTW I have an extra nut pick you can have for free if you want it.

Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

Hello----I'd like that Nut Pick. I had a tough time getting pieces removed after I set them well and the nut pick came in handy....I have a borrowed one right now. My nail gal would really like for me to have a nut pick, too.

I'll let Ambika get first crack at the full set of 10 DMM ultralight cams but any chance of seeing a pictures of them?

Matt Hoffman · Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Grantham, NH

I'd listen to fritzski. There should be no hurry on your part to build up a rack of pro for trad climbing. What are you going to do with it? Being so new to climbing, I just can't imagine that you are ready to lead trad climbs yet.

A better investment would be the basics: a rope is always good. Something in the 10.2mm range is light, but not scary-light like some of the thinner ropes. A variety of lengths of webbing for building anchors, biners, and don't forget 2 slings for personal anchors. If your feeling comfortable enough to lead something, start with a rack of quickdraws. I think it'd be best to start with easy sport climbs to see where your head is at.

There are pros and cons to both sport and trad leading. With sport climbing, you don't have to worry about your gear falling out of the crack. But, since the bolts are preplaced, you can only clip in where a bolt is. If you freak out in between bolts, well, you're probably in for a ride. With trad climbing, you better be confident in your ability to place pro so that it doesn't fall out of the crack. But, as long as the rock allows and you have the right size pieces, you can place pro anywhere, so you'll always feel protected.

For me personally, trad climbing scares the heck out of me. I'll second a trad climb all day long, but leading... I don't think so. I guess I've seen too many videos of pro zippering out of cracks when a trad leader falls. I once led a 5.6 trad climb that had all of the gear preplaced. I was so ridiculously scared. I also once led a pitch on the Carney Springs Wall in the Supes that had one bolt in 50 ft. My friend called it the "sport" pitch. I actually placed a cam in a small crack on that pitch. The one and only piece of gear I've ever placed.

For some reason I feel a whole lot safer on sport climbs, even the scary ones. In Joshua Tree, I led a 2-pitch climb that had a 60ft run-out on the 2nd pitch. I was freaked out! But, I still do it. I'm too much of a wuss to climb trad though. I know... it doesn't make any sense.

The only place I can imagine you using pro right now is at Paradise Forks, south of Williams. Pro is definitely needed for building anchors there. But I wouldn't go there until your crack climbing skills are solid! Queen Creek has a few walls that are set-up for top-roping. You can walk to the top of the wall and there are great bolts for setting up top-ropes. I'd check that out.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I miss climbing! One more week, and then I'll be climbing in PA. I can't wait! Have fun guys! Very Happy

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RedRoxx44 · Queen of the Walkabout Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 1167

I'll throw in my .01 cent worth since I am not a climber. When I first got into caving I thought I needed all kinds of gear right away. It's expensive. I'm happy with the gear I have and I've used it but really since I was so new to it I could have spent a lot of money and what if I got tired of it and just gave it up??? Sure I could sell it but at quite a loss.
My best investments have been my ropes and my ascending gear. Just be aware the larger diameter ropes are heavy and bulky to pack in. The French cavers are going to really small diameter ropes for expedition caving, really pushing it, and some are dying as a result. I have one 11m and two 10.5mm ropes, but are static rather than dynamic, which also makes them a bit heavy. I need another rope tho and looking at what to do about that. I will prolly go to a smaller diameter rope.
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desertgirl · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 3350 Location: Chandler, AZ

I am just looking to build up enough pieces to be able to place solid anchors -- So all I am looking for at this time is a few pieces of pro that I can have handy so I can use them to set up soild anchors - So a good range of wire nuts/ hexes and few tri cams, some slings / webbing is all I am thinking of.... Oh Yes -- some climbing rope too!

All hardware will be "Used" at this point. I am not ready for lead school so I do not need to worry about that for a while. In my mind, you should be climbing well before you lead ...there's plenty of top ropes opportunities to work on.

Personal goal is to get solid at climbing 5.8 + and then decide what I want to do. As much as I love being & climbing outdoors ( which I find easier than the gym) I will be likely focusing on strength and skill indoors before I get into more classes and major outings with climbs way beyond my capability. I need to be wise in how I use my free time. So much to do -- so little time. Confused

I really miss hiking Rolling Eyes

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Matt Hoffman · Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Grantham, NH

desertgirl · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 3350 Location: Chandler, AZ

You are very correct - any used (including gear that is new and been in the field some - even if its taken care of) is always suspect. I have read extensively on the subject of used gear. I think the jury is out on "Used" hardware -- yes, the could have all these issues but when I climb on club gear or borrowed gear from other climbers - I still do not know where the have been or what has happened to them. I did see a few pieces dropped and then slipped back on the rack -- should those have been tossed or downgraded ?

Since you brought it up --I will throw out something else that I has been bothering me some -- do you know what has happened on those bolts that we so rely on -- Would they not have cracks develop over time and who know how many falls they have seen. We always want to believe the bolts are good and solid.
I'd personally be OK setting a combo anchor with natural pro and some additional pieces that may be used.
Leadclimbing rack where my life totally depends on my pro -- will all be new and never leave my custody! I do not think I I will buy used biners ....or will for that matter the smaller cams etc.
If you are a climber that is selling bad gear as good -- its a sad day. We could debate this forever but then again all things climbing /hiking or what ever else I do - there is a certain amount of risk we all take. I always wonder about the abuse my "new" rental car has taken each time I step into one ....
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Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

Suz · Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3186

Did you see what happened to the cordelette from the second anchor that you and Tracy built on Sunday? Seeing how that was frayed by the sharp edges of the rock at the end of the day (was worth a thousand words) certainly made me think twice about gear choices and natural anchors vs. bolts. Certainly sent home a message about checking anchors during the course of a day, and the choices of gear for master points, while considering the specific hang of the route. All good lessons to learn in a class.