Oh oh

[Shawn]

Missing Canyon Hikers:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/05/28/20080528missinghikers28-on.html
_________________
The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

[Davis2001R6]

At least they had some cool weather this week. Hope they find them ok.

[Davis2001R6]

[mikehikes]

I always get a chuckle when the clueless <newsfolks> write about Grand Canyon. In the quoted story above it states that the Royal Arch Route is in the "far western portion" of Grand Canyon. Ha! Royal Arch Creek <named Elves Chasm in it's lower sections> reaches the River at mile 116. The Park stretches beyond mile 277! Royal Arch is not quite half way in my book. And trust me....there is a LOT of good hiking <and boating> west of Royal Arch.
_________________
Mike Coltrin
Tucson

[azjohn]

They have been found.
_________________
Cheers!,
-John

[SCOOTERNINJA]

I havent posted on here in a long time, but I had to after reading this story...because I actually made the same exact mistake!

I grew up a backpacker and climber. I had hiked the GC many times as a kid with my father. When I was 19 (25 now), I decided to lead a group of college buddies down the South Bass. None of them had any hiking experience, but were all college athletes. Anyways, we missed the cutoff down the South Bass going many miles toward the Royal Arch. I had a map, but at the time didnt carry a GPS. I convinced myself that another side canyon had to be the South Bass (no trail of course). We spent the entire day getting down this side canyon (handing packs down, a lot of down climbing, etc..). The side canyon goes into a narrow slot (amazing slot canyon), the slot was filled with water holes as it was March. WE continued down until my buddy says, "I dont think this is the right canyon." I said, "whys that"? He says, because I dont remember reading a 500 ft repel in the guide. There it was the river literally right below us, only a 500 ft drop away. So, we hiked back up a ways and found a little opening where we could climb to the tonto and still be close to the water in the slot canyon (the tonto is rather low at the part of the canyon). We stayed the night in one of the best campsites I have ever had, overlooking the canyon, in a place I doubt many if any have been. The next day was very very tough, climbing back up the sie canyon we had come down. I always had to climb first, hoist the packs up and throw a rope down (very draining!). We spent all day making it back up to meet the esplanade. We luckily found a great place, to camp on the explanade with large flat rocks whose holes were filled with water. The next day we traversed the esplanade back to the correct cutoff to the South Bass and made our way down the South Bass. Overall, it was a great adventure. But I realize how lucky we were to have only people in great shape, be there in March where water was actually in the side canyon. Had it been May, we could have been in serious trouble. Needless to say, we built up the rocks and stick which were there to mark the cutoff.

I am glad those hikers made it through and had the smarts to stay with the water until they found the actual way out! I have been on many Grand Canyon adventures since, but the South Bass trip remains one of my fondest memories. It was actually fun getting lost, even though that would not happen now that I carry a GPS. Obviously those hikers did not have a GPS. I had to call my buddies who went on that trip with me today. They too, have many fond memories of that trip and are glad that the couple made it out ok.

Hope you enjoyed my story,
Kris
_________________
"In heaven there is no beer, thats why we drink it here, and when we are gone our friends will be drinking all the beer."

[Shawn]

Great story! Thanks for sharing it.
_________________
The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

[gpsjoe]

[Matt Hoffman]

[SCOOTERNINJA]

I never said the lesson was to rely on electronic devices. I used to be against carryting them. They are however worth carrying in case of emergency (even the best mountaineers cannot prevent all accidents). Here is an instance, you are with another backpacker. He his injured so severely that there is no way you can get him out. So, you get the backpacker to a good place (probly in a tent with everything they need). You store the place you left him as a waypoint. You hike out as fast as you can, give your GPS to search and rescue and they can get there in an instant.

I dont use the GPS much, but have utilized it in order to get to a certain point as I do a lot of cross-country mountaineering. They are nice when you have to find a tiny shoot to descend on a large mountain face. (Every mountaineer has gone down only to realize that they must go back up to get to the place where they need to be to get down) You are way to negative Matt, it is a personal choice.

I agree that backpackers should know their abilities. From reports it seems that the couple was within their abilities doing that trip. However, it is curious why the couple sat so long, but with the details released everything is purely conjecture. It seems that if you were lost, youd find a campsite near a water source and take day hikes to get your bearing.

And if you are implying that I was in over my head when I did the South Bass trip at 19, then you are wrong. True I didnt know the route well as we showed up and got a permit the day we went in. I had been leading trips through much more remote mountain terrain since I was about 13 (wyoming has some truely remote places). But mountaineering isnt purely about knowing a route as much as it is about knowing how to adapt. I actually knew we were in the wrong canyon well before we got to the end, but figured we might be able to hike along the Tonto and meet up with the Bass (couldnt do this). But in reality at no time were we ever worried one bit, we were just out having fun. Actually, the reason why it was difficult to determine exactly where we went was because I didnt have the quadrangle for where we ended up. In fact, all the guys I was with were glad we got lost and were able to go where we went. We saw about as neat of slot canyon as anyone could hope for and with absolutely no sign that anyone had ever been there before. Yes ill admit we camped in areas outside our permit (oh well...not like it was intentional).

I also agree that the person who is organizing a difficult trip should be confident that those they take with them will be able to carry their own. I took all beginner hikers (never even been backpacking), but I knew them from athletics. They learned a ton on that trip and now one of them does a lot of mountaineering with myself and is a person I now consider an expert. I just wish we still had the youthful enthusiasm we had back then. On the way out, we hiked from Bass Rapids to the trailhead in about 3 hours. I guess the trail just seemed real easy after all the rock climbing.

Overall, its a personal choice to carry a GPS. The technology is there, its light and could be helpful in case of the emergency. I mean, you carry a first-aid kit right? I doubt you go in planning on spraining an ankle, but you got it in the rare chance it might be beneficial.

Lastly, I dont think there is any way to mistake what direction you are headed in in the Grand Canyon or at least for very long.
_________________
"In heaven there is no beer, thats why we drink it here, and when we are gone our friends will be drinking all the beer."

[Suz]

Well this is the good ole hiking dialog I miss! You all make valuable points and I love taking it all in. Thanks guys for putting it out there.

Each person is so unique and our experiences are all so varied it's difficult to have a right way and a wrong way. For me--- I need to do my own research, trust the people I'm with and their decision making abilities (these often go out the window in a stressful situation like being lost) and probably push come to shove...........having a map would give me a better big picture....probably because I'm not handy with a GPS at this point.

I've been lost, too......and trust me, fun is not exactly how I would describe it. I think it was more my level head and calm thinking that got us out.......not the expert map reader or the map....we were so far off trail it wasn't funny. Once that sun started setting we struggled to get our bearings and really couldn't place ourselves on the map without a compass. Complicate the situation with running out of water and that certainly ups the anty. Being lost once was enough for me, I really don't need a do over. I do think it is important to always know that stuff could happen.....heart issues, dehydration, snakebites, brakes......and to have thought a bit about what you would do.

The question becomes, how long before you know you are lost and what is the next best step. All the variables certainly start coming to mind.

[gpsjoe]

I agree that we must know our own capabilities and exercise good judgement in the wilderness. And I also agree that it is a personal choice whether and how to use a GPS or other device while out there. And it is my personal choice to use GPS as my primary navigation tool. I carry a compass but it rarerly sees the light of day because it is there in case my GPS has a problem (and this has never happened - yet). Incidentally the compass can get lost or damaged on the trail just the same as the GPS, except it doesn't use batteries but with good judgement I have never had a battery problem on the trail (I have spares and always start with fully charged ones which are good for 14 to 18 hours of contiuouus operation).

I have not done the Royal Arch route and do not have plans of doing it either but if I did I would have that route mapped on my GPS preferably using an accurately recorded track that some other hiker posted somewhere. If a track is not available I would use the National Geographic map of the Royal Arch route and convert it into a GPS track which I know how to do so it would show loud and clear on my GPS display. GPS always tells me exactly where I am and exactly where that mapped route is. You can forgo the pleasure of knowing that of course if that is your choice but I don't see the point.

My partner carries a SPOT and we never plan on sending an emergency message. Yet if an unfortuanate accident should happen and emergency services are needed, I am sure we will thank our lucky stars that we had that as we would for any emergency supplies that prove useful. She also sends OK messages home with some tracking info to give the folks at home the warm and fuzzies they deserve.

Those who refuse to embrace GPS technology should maybe throw away their maps and compasses and go back to natural navigation using the rivers, canyons, sun, moon, stars, animal tracks and other natural features to navigate by rather than those high tech maps and compasses. Then you would get the real feel of the wilderness as it should be according to some. I can imagine that hundreds of years ago there were "real trackers" who laughed at the map and compass people.

The lost hikers in a brief TV comment said that, after a while, the canyons and slots in the GC started to all look the same and they had no idea where they were. From my modest amount of experience in the GC I can understand that sentiment. Bet they wish they had a GPS and/or SPOT on that hike. No one wants to be on TV that way.

[MikeInFHAZ]

[Matt Hoffman]

[IGO]

Matt, you don't know what happened to these people you just love opportunities to be self righteous. The article said the couple where experienced backpackers and sometimes poopie just happens. I'm about 50 times more experienced backpacker than you and I've been lost several times. Crap happens Mr. Perfect.
It’s these kinds of reads that makes me not want to come here anymore.
_________________
"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir