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Another Lightweight Nerd's Packweight
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maryphyl
Grand Canyon Enchantress




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 669
Location: Flagstaff

PostPosted: 8/5/2008, 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

desertgirl wrote:

How do you manage with just 2 liters of water in summer?


That's all i carry assuming there is water at my destination. Going really light allows you to get where you are going more quickly. I tank up before i start--usually a quart in the tummy. mp
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
Location: location location

PostPosted: 8/5/2008, 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

It seems easy enough to reliably do as Mary does, most places I hike have enough water in the Summer. 2 quarts is like a juggling act... while drinking 1 of them the other is under "treatment" via aquamira or tablets. Then about the time Im out of the first quart, the second is ready and I fill up again. Even in the Supes right now there is still water in some of the canyons. Needle canyon has a huge pool just north of the Boulder canyon intersection. and there's water all over that Mazatzal range, even last week when it was 95 on the Sandy saddle loop, there was water in the seep on top of sandy saddle.

so one would think that its limiting to hike where water can be found but thats simply not the case in my experience. (or with my experience?) although you will absolutely find water in higher ground like under the Rim and places where the pools last a while.
so far everywhere I have hiked for probably the last 2 years has had water sources, (clean and clear) about every 3-4 miles. This coming weekend Im going to camp at the cabin up on Kendrick so I'll have to pack in 7 liters of water. Not a big deal, it has to be done.
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azbackpackr
Hi Tech Wizardess




Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 3639
Location: Needles CA

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I think it's great to hear about people getting into ultralight gear--it will make the manufacturers sit up and listen, maybe. Up to now a lot of people into that have been the fastpacker types who want to hike 40 miles a day. But I have always said, what about the rest of us? We're not getting any younger, and having one's pack weight cut in half or less would be a really good idea!

As for it actually happening, people making the switch, I have talked to people out on the trail about the idea, saying I don't know much about it but that it makes sense to me, but it's funny how much resistance you get from people who want to keep on carrying 40 lb. packs for a weekend hike.

As for your hammock, no offense man, but I'll sleep in a hammock right about when hell freezes over. Of course, I realize there are other options! Wink

I haven't had the time or funds to do much switching-out of gear, though.
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
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PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

azbackpackr wrote:
I think it's great to hear about people getting into ultralight gear--it will make the manufacturers sit up and listen, maybe.

I think that is the most absolute waste of your time if you think or expect traditional backpack gear companies to start making ultralight gear. So who exactly do you want to "sit up and listen"?

and what do you have against the idea of sleeping in a hammock anyway?
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azbackpackr
Hi Tech Wizardess




Joined: 31 Dec 2005
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Location: Needles CA

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Oh, I don't have anything against OTHER people sleeping in a hammock at all! Just not for me! I don't like the feeling of being in a hammock. Whenever I have gotten into one I always want out, like right now, the sooner the better. Even those big yard ones bother me. Too confining or something, and then there is the inevitable sag. Very uncomfortable for me, makes my back hurt. I like to be really flat when I sleep. I guess if there were alligators crawling around on the ground, like my Cajun canoeing friend told me about, in Louisiana, then the hammock would make a lot of sense! Last time I checked there were no alligators in Arizona. Only lil ol rattlesnakes and scorpions! I can deal with them!

If there is a market for ultralight and a demand, then why wouldn't the market respond? This does not compute... Please advise....
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fairweather8588





Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 716

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

azbackpackr wrote:

If there is a market for ultralight and a demand, then why wouldn't the market respond? This does not compute... Please advise....


Ultralight style gear for the bigger companies means using less materials for the lighter and more simplistic products, so the have to charge less money for them and get a smaller profit.
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sbkelley





Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 284
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:
Ultralight style gear for the bigger companies means using less materials for the lighter and more simplistic products, so the have to charge less money for them and get a smaller profit.


Generally, I think that's a fair point, but aren't some of the materials used in ultra light gear more expensive than those used in "normal gear?" Even though less manufacturing is needed in ultra-lighting, does the higher material cost make it more expensive? I don't know too much about ultra-lighting so am just curious
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fairweather8588





Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 716

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Very true, fabrics like spinnaker are a lot more expensive then the fabrics that they are using right now, but the jump from Gregory to Gossamer Gear is quite a large one, I'm sure more of a "lightweight" transition is what they would have to do to ease people into a lighter backpack
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
Location: location location

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

ahh, I see. the sag thing. But what you dont know yet, about the "suspension bridge" style hammock in my signature is the spreader bars hold the ends open while the side channels distribute the weight of the occupyer so you lay completely flat if you hang it right. this also allow a person to sit up an read a book! its not confining in the sense and nothing like a gathered end hammock. this is a new thing, and its far superior. I would bet you could like it if you tried. im not trying to conform you or anyone else to hammocks but I'll just say this: I will never, never go back to ground sleeping. I have evolved!

now, traditional backpacking companies arent going to make true ultralight gear. its too risky since traditional backpackers are more careless with their gear, since it is made for abuse. and thats ok. you can sit on your arcteryx backpack and throw it down a cliff and it wont tear. try that with spinnaker, whether it be a tent zipper or a pair of vapor barrier mitts and youre going to have a returns department that will bankrupt you..
besides, youre missing the point if you are thinking they will listen to us.
the American public wants out of Iraq! does Congress care? not a stitch.

you have a market that is flavorfully filled with excellent UL gear. there is no need to wait for a mediocre company like the North Face to fill the void. Here's a few businesses that make UL gear for the true sense of the word:

Ethereal Gear.
Brawny
ULA
Mountain Laurel
Mini Bull designs
TarpTent
Six Moon designs
Zpacks
GoLite
Gossamer Gear
Fanatic Fringe
Anti-Gravity gear
Nunatak
Western Mountaineering
Bozeman mountain works
simblissity
Jacks 'r Better
Mont-Bell
Oware

there are more.. these are just off my top head.

UL is out there. everywhere.
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azbackpackr
Hi Tech Wizardess




Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 3639
Location: Needles CA

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hey, if I see a hammock set up sometime I will give it a try, okay? Maybe I'd like it after all. I did remember something else--I fell out of a hammock when I was about 4 and had a mild concussion. Now I'm thinking that might be why I have that strong feeling about them.

By the way, I print out all your pack lists and put in my file. I am going to get some of this gear one of these days! I'm going to now print your manufacturer list.

At my job I sew packs for forest fire fighters. The packs are pretty brawny and tough, needless to say. But recently, my boss was working with another vendor on a pack for hunters, made with this fuzzy camouflage material called RealTree. The resulting complicated backpack was so very heavy that I just felt really offended by the whole process. I don't know why, but I just hated sewing those packs! I hated when I was done with one, that thing weighed at least 15 lbs. totally empty! How dumb is that? And then they add ammo and optics and other stuff. Sheesh! Dragging around 100 lbs for just a day trip by the time they have it full. I am glad we don't have to make those any more.
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

azbackpackr wrote:
Hey, if I see a hammock set up sometime I will give it a try, okay? Maybe I'd like it after all. I did remember something else--I fell out of a hammock when I was about 4 and had a mild concussion. Now I'm thinking that might be why I have that strong feeling about them.
man that sounds horrible!
I think the hammock camping is so new and rare and "underground" that most people (including myself up to 6 mo ago) never could imagine. Its just so awesome I kick myself for not trying it before then.
On the other hand, I keep running into hangers all the time. Josh, Tyler, Ken, Tony, me. (hoffman has also shown interest- thats right, matt youre next! haha) Its so unique in its own right but then every hammock set up is different. You pro'lly wont come across the same model, same under insulation or top bag, suspension etc...
sorry for ranting but I guess yeah, you'll have to try one. (hammocks dont make you lay like a banana, unless it is pitched wrong. The idea is to lay on a diagonal, and you will lay mostly flat. It takes a bit of tweaking to get it right since everyone is different.) there is actually a entire forum set up to discuss hammocks and tarps. Hammockforums.net (same guys that run Whiteblaze.net)
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Shawn
I'll sell you map to Lost Dutchman mine!




Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 2592
Location: Ahwatukee, AZ

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

azbackpackr wrote:
Last time I checked there were no alligators in Arizona.


Not anymore:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Jul-14-Thu-2005/news/26878755.html
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fairweather8588





Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 716

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Shawn wrote:
azbackpackr wrote:
Last time I checked there were no alligators in Arizona.


Not anymore:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Jul-14-Thu-2005/news/26878755.html


Shocked
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Hikngrl
Canyoneering is my 'Happy Place'




Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I have really enjoyed this conversation! An inteligent conversation between an ULer and a Traditionalist without anger, foul language or insults! YAY!!!!!! Keep it up Mike and you may have me talked into trying a hammock!
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MikeInFHAZ





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PostPosted: 8/6/2008, 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

hey, I think I talked Poppa Todd into an alcohol stove, so ya never know...
ive gotta get in on one of these group hikes to compare ideals. there is so much going on right now in our b'packing world it helps to have perspectives. I'll let you try my hammock for sho'
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