The War......

[evenstar]

Can't think of any of you that are young enough to have lived during WW II, but hope some of you are watching this series on PBS. Think of the numbers who died in Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq's two wars combined.....multiply by about ten and you get some idea of the number of American soldiers who died fighting that war. Add in the literally tens of millions of others killed and you get some idea of the true horror. I remember it vividly as a five year old living in Oakland, CA in 1942....air raid sirens and blackout curtains on the window; Air Raid Wardens who were responsible for checking their areas to make sure there were no lights shining through windows; imagine the imagination of a five year old sitting in a blacked out, candle lit home.....I heard distance bombs bursting.....guns firing....I now know it was all in my mind, but at the time I KNEW there were Japanese bombers overhead trying to kill me. My parents both worked in the shipyards, my father as a welder, my mother too as a fire fighter while I was baby sat by a sixteen year old uncle too young to join the navy as he did months later. My parents took me to a movie...think it was Bambie....and back then there were newsreels at every movie. The newsreel that night showed a Japanese officer stating that Japan would win the war and destroy the American enemy. I remember the panic I felt at watching that scene that scared the crap out of me and how hard it was for my mother to explain, "propaganda" to a five year old. How do you tell a five year old that the air raid sirens, the blackout curtains and the imagined bomb bursts aren't for real?
I've only watched the first two of this seven part series and can can only wonder, why haven't we humans learned.
Don't watch it to be entertained....some of the footage is very, very gruesome...watch it to learn and hope that, somehow, we'll never see such carnage again. Personally, the way our world is headed, I'm afraid we may see the carnage of WW II multiplied ten fold....or worse.
_________________
John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902

[Nighthiker]

Been Waching, also picked up a copy of The War. Our nation needs to return to that level of resolve to solve our problems.

[Shawn]

I've caught both episodes so far as well. You are right, difficult for us to imagine but it is enlightening for me as it helps me understand what my parents went through. My Dad was in it, he was a cook with the forces that moved up through Italy. Had a 3 day pass to go to Rome and see the Pope. I have some of the memorabilia he bought home from that.
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The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

[IGO]

I don't know what series you are talking about Hooli?

When I lived in Sicily my dad used to punish us kids if we played on the golf coarse anyplace but the fairways because there were still unexploded mines in the taller grass. I've climbed on the machine gun pill boxes with sides blown out of them by bombs and have touched the oily soot from the flame throwers on the inside walls. Most of my life I've read about the great wars, namely the Civil War and WWII. Horor is not a big enough word.
I have an Uncle who was part of the occupying forces in Japan after the war. He married a Japanese girl in early 1947. Her name is Jerry 'because us kids couldn't pronounce her real name. My Uncle and Aunt Jerry are still very much alive and doing very well. She is a doll. You guys saw pictures of her when I posted after my fathers funeral.
If there were another WWII and we managed not to use nuclear weapons, and a loosing side would almost surely use them, we'd could count on seeing a measurable drop in world population I'm sure of it.
We're humans. Some day.

[evenstar]

[YH]

I watched a bit last night. They are rightfully called "The Greatest Generation."

[evenstar]

Parents who had a son or daughter in the service had a little gold trimmed blue flag with a red star on it they hung in, usually, a front window to represent the child. If one of theirs was killed in the war they changed to star to gold.....there were many, many "Gold Star Mothers". My grandmother's flag had two red Stars and, thankfully they stayed red.

My stepfather was an airplane mechanic in the 8th Air Force in England and Belgium.
_________________
John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902

[GTG]

[evenstar]

[Davis2001R6]

[evenstar]

[Davis2001R6]

I don't see that happening and certainly won't be losing any sleep over it.

[evenstar]

BTW Tim, the 400,000 figure you quote as being killed in WW II is American armed forces only and last night the figure quoted was closer to 500,000. And we, the Americans, had the fewest number of casualties when you take into account ALL the allied forces. And I'm not so sure we fight smarter today is the reason the numbers are smaller. World War II was exactly that....a WORLD WAR; since then the fighting has, for the most part, been limited to relatively small areas of the world with much smaller forces. And the biggest reason, in my opinion, is air superiority.........Let's face it, we have virtually total control of the air. WW II, the Germans had complete control of the air over Europe until early 1944. Why? Because the allies didn't have fighters with sufficient range to reach Germany and back to England. Two B-17 sorties covered in last night's part......both to try and take out the ball bearing plants in one German city. The first sortie was over 350 B-17's with fighter escorts less than half the distance before the fighters had to return for lack of range; sixty B-17's, each with a crew of ten, didn't make it back and many that did make it back were severely damaged with many wounded. They were attacked by German fighters shortly after crossing the English Channel; the German fighters broke off once the bombers were within range of German anti-aircraft guns going in, but then attacked the B-17's again on the way out. The second sortie had, I believe, 260 some B-17's with barely 200 making it back. Both sorties failed in their mission to destroy the ball bearing factories.
Early 1944 the P-51, with it's sufficient range to escort bomber all the way in and out, was put into service and by D-Day the allies controlled the air over western Europe for the first time.
Same was pretty much true in the Pacific and Asia; until the last part of the Pacific war, the Japanese had nearly total control of the skies.
Had the allies had the air superiority in the 1930's that we have now, there almost certainly would not have been a WW II.
GO AIR FORCE!!!!!
_________________
John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902

[thesuperstitions]

I would have to concur with Tim. We most certainly do fight smarter, but yes... air superiority it a huge advantage. I've personally worked on a handful of projects that help our troops to fight smarter, and one that is truly revolutionary in our ability to defend ourselves and to project power when needed. It's no accident that we suffer fewer casualties on the battlefield and that we maintain air superiority in all conflicts in which we engage. But war is a nasty business that can change in an instant if we are not forever vigilant. The biggest danger is a complacent society that wants to constantly stick its collective head in the sand and hope the problems go away. We did that prior to WWII and didn't get involved until the aggressors brought the fight to our shores. It's much smarter, IMHO, to keep the aggressors on the defensive on THEIR shores.

[evenstar]

Don't forget, medical advances have had a huge impact in reducing the numbers of battlefield deaths as well. I think it's safe to say that most of the Iraq casualties being fitted with prosthetic limbs would not have survived those same wounds in WW II. Strangely enough, wars are responsible for many advances in the treatment of traumatic injuries today. 1973 my little MGB-GT was hit broadside in the drivers door by a full size Pontiac doing in excess of 40 mph; porridge near cut both me and the MG in half and broke all the ribs on my left side leaving with what's called Flail Chest. Imagine a bellows with all its ribs broken.....pump it all you want, it's just gonna flail away with little or no air coming out. I was put on a respirator that was developed to treat the many terrible chest wounds from the VietNam war and, according to my doctors, it saved my life.
With medevac helicopters today's wounded are often within minutes of high tech operating rooms that weren't even dreamed of in WW II. Korea had its MASH units which, though good, were primitive compared to what's available to a wounded soldier today.
_________________
John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902