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Tips and Tricks needed---Packing food for 9 days
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Suz





Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3186

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 6:06 am    Post subject: Tips and Tricks needed---Packing food for 9 days Reply to topic Reply with quote

I'm trying to carefully plan and pack my food for the LCR trip and it sure looks like I'm going to need some help from all of you experts. What ways do you shave off weight on your food for a long trip? If I keep packing the way I am it looks like I'll have 20lbs of food and that can't be right!

1. What would you expect the reasonable weight to be for that many days?

2. I can see that a package of oatmeal weighs signficantly less than a package of poptarts. Should I be making those sorts of switches in food?

3. How many calories would be a solid days worth?

4. I am repackaging my dehydrated/freeze dried meals to save some weight.

Where else can I shave off weight in my food by making a switch?
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
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PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

1)1.5 lbs a day for average man
2)yes
3)at least 100 calories per ounce.
4)check out Freezer Bag Cooking

Ive been doing this for months.
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maryphyl
Grand Canyon Enchantress




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 669
Location: Flagstaff

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Well--let's think. Fuel weighs something too so keeping everything dry is good but you do not want too much (if any) cooking. The more fat you add the better because fat has double the calories of carbs and protiens for the same weight. Good fats are in high cal cookies (sandies are great), well cooked bacon (will last several days if you keep it way down in the pack for insulation) and nuts. If you can make it without coffee a no-doz tablet is the equivalent of one cup. If you decide to go without a stove mtn house will rehydrate with plain water--it takes about half an hour instead of 10 minutes. Tastes fine--like cold canned food.

For a hike this long you really need to think about fiber or your system will jam up. Good sources are wasa , triscuits and dry fruits--very dry fruits. Potassium will come from these fruits as well.

Cubic inches of food become important because all of this has to fit in your pack. Choose things that stack and pack compactly. Get rid of all unnecessary packaging and suck the air out of all ziplocks.

For quantities I would guess you need one pound a day for the first day or three and then boost up to a pound and a quarter. Weighing this stuff is really important.

That's all I can think of for now--have fun and good luck and don't hesitate to write to me if you have questions. Mary

One other idea to keep fats from going rancid on you is to make your pack a very light preferably white color--perhaps a thin shirt pulled over it or ??? Be sure to keep your pack in the shade whenever possible--this really helps. mp
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desertgirl





Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Suz,

Think of the brighter side -- you will not need to lug gallons of water except at the very end of your hike Smile

What does your food list look like now -- post it and you will have feedback on switches
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Cynhikr





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1197
Location: Tempe, AZ.

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

For suppers I'd suggest some freeze-dried chicken (or sausage, diced ham or beef, available in bulk - #10 cans from Mountain House or equivalent) added to Lipton Sides - about 1/3 the price of pre-packaged freeze dried meals with less trash - to me they taste better as well. http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=FN%20B115
http://theepicenter.com/freeze_dried_and_dehydrated.html Fat can be efficiently added to most dishes via Olive Oil (or ghee if you want to go that route). If you drink coffee or cocoa, you can add Nido (available at Wally-World, http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/mex-grocer_1946_5962123 to get a bit of fat that way - or just mix with cold water (if cold is available) for a glass of milk.
Dried fruits/berries and different types of nuts (Trader Joe's and Fry's (with new store-set) have a good selection of nuts and dried fruits - I especially like the spicy-flavored nuts) provide pretty good calorie-weight ratio with the benefit of salt as well. Peanut butter & honey mixed is pretty tasty and has pretty good calorie-count as well. Tortillas/Pita-pockets/bagels are OK, but weigh a lot vs. their calories - sometimes it's worth it though. Remember some candy.. peanut/almond M&M's, etc.
I generally eat a protein bar for breakfast.
Depending on your itinerary, I'd say that about 2500-3000 calories a day would be more than safe - that is, unless you were to be doing 20+ mile days.

kurt
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YH
Hooli Wants to be just like me!




Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 387
Location: Portland, OR and Yosemite on a good day.

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I have to use a bear canister where I hike so I try an go very compact. You are on the right track of repackaging. If you use FD meals put them in a qt freezer bag that compacts nicely when air is removed. I also do the freezer bag cooking, as suggested by another, for the bulk of my dinners. I like couscous or minute rice as a base. 1/3 cup dry couscous with some additives (just veggies, chicken, seasoning etc) should serve you well. I like to bring tortillas (they fit perfect in my canister) and eat it as a burrito. I use a small “grease pot” from Wally word. It’s very light/small and my screen, stove (pepsi can stove) cup, handle, lighter/matches all fit snugly inside. Cooking is simply boil water, ad to freezer bag of contents, put in cozy for 10 minutes. My cozy is a foil coated piece of bubble wrap made into a pouch. It works great. In AZ you could just put it on a rock and hope the rock doesn’t melt the bag! The freezer bag cooking website from Sarbar at backpacker.com used to have a lot of recipes.

As stated mixed nuts are packed with oil and a good fuel source. I ad other things for a trail mix. That is usually lunch when cheese and crackers run out.

Oatmeal is less bulky than granola and you can eat without milk. I personally like milk and granola or muesli. I’ll include vanilla protein powder with the powdered milk for some extra nutrition.

Planning is everything. I met an old guy two weeks ago (you would love his photos!) who goes out for 20-30 days at a time with a 20 lb pack! “How do you do that?!!!” was my question. Everything is precisely measured in grams and every meal exactly planned. (he counts M&Ms for Pete’s sake!). He also knows he will loose a pound a day… I doubt you would want do that. He was a bit extreme, but had it down to a science as far as planning and packing.

Think also…what gear can be shared and eliminate duplications…even the small duplications. It all takes space and ads weight.

This is way too long so I’ll zip it for now!
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BoyNhisDog
The dangerous place where the winds meet




Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Suz, you are getting many good suggestions. If you can find a copy, you might check out Chris Townsend’s Walk Across the Yukon. I don’t have a copy anymore or I would send it to you but in it he describes how many days worth of food it was possible for him to carry, what he ate and how much it all weighed. He had some long legs in between re-supply. All I can add is I never seem to be able to eat enough out there and when I get back I am always ravenous for at least a week. There is never any way I can carry or eat enough food. If there is one popular theme that goes along with hiking and backpacking it is “and the best restaurant the area is” (once you come out the wilderness).

Anyway we always make out own Trail mix with lots of nuts, seeds and dried fruit as well as M&Ms because they don’t melt like the other chocolates we take. The trail mix is heavy but full of energy and it is very good for what one craves. We take a lot of other foods but that one really stands out for munching on the trail.
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
Location: location location

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

YH, good to hear someone who knows Sarah. Sarbar (sare-bear) wrote a book about freezer bag cooking and her website is full of generous people who have added their own favorite recipes. Many of them use quinoa (if you havent had this tiny pasta, youre not living) oats, pastas, lentils and other highly healthy foods.
here's a recipe I could swear is the real deal...but not exactly healthy
Trail Nachos:
1 cheeze pack from generic mac'n cheese
1/4 tsp. garlic powder
1 taco bell hot sauce
1/2 cup boiling water
chips of choice.
It makes maybe the best tasting nacho cheese! (or maybe Im just starving at camp)
I like BND's mention of trail mix, too. Very good stuff.
try sunflower kernels, plain M&Ms, and fruit bits by SunMaid.
about freezer bag cozies, you can make one out of "reflectix" or commonly known as a shiny auto windshield cover. ($4 walmart, makes about 6 cozies) they last a good long time if held together with HVAC tape. (home depot-$3)
I was selling them on eBay for a while-they go fast. I was surprised.
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JW
I'll make rain with my spaceman powers!




Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 1296

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

This is still my biggest problem in the longer and/or most rigorous treks, but I think all of the above are good suggestions.

Assuming, staying fully hydrated (very important at all times), I try to take a complete b'fast (read oatmeal and fruit + vitamins) everyday, a balanced lunch (somehow never enough calories...), and a hi-carb, hi-cal (plenty of hydration) dinner. Even so, I plan on losing 10+ lbs, every trip.

In any event, we all carry too much reserve weight (thank you, genes), so losing some (stay hydrated, always) weight, is part of the equation. So I guess it becomes an individual experiment in personal physiogonomy.

Having said that, continue to experiment, but err on the high side and cache reserves, yes?
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Shawn
I'll sell you map to Lost Dutchman mine!




Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 2592
Location: Ahwatukee, AZ

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Yeah, those of us who carry a little reserve don't have to worry so much about this. I never felt better than coming out of my longest back pack trip, but the prime rib on the shuttle back to the car was the best ever.
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IGO





Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The longest I've walked without seeing a cache is 11 days. In any hikes over 8 or 9 days that I've ever done I've not had any dehydrated fruit other than banana wedges. Things like nuts or peanut butter or tuna are out unfortunately. I've eaten many meals of oatmeal and rice with a little spike (spices) and little else. Gatorade is out, add straight salt to foods and sugar comes from carbs, that is the only way I obtain electrolytes. Everything is dehydrated. Water content is next to non-existent, it has to be. Not only for reasons of weight but for reasons of mass.
This is food for +week long hikes Suz. Right now it sounds less than thrilling but you'll eat it on the trail and someplace around day 4 or 5 you get a strange kind of complacent along with becoming more of one with your surroundings. The opposite will happen the very same instant you decide that you are on the home stretch then visions of Porterhouse and St Poly Girl flood your thinking. LOL.
Keep in mind that once the trail grub is inside, it will do the same thing your best home cooking will do and that is to give you the fuel to go on more adventure.
Stay away from aluminum or any kind of wet packs. I loved the trail nacho recipe but don't carry squeeze pack type of Mac and cheese....not for 9 days. It’s a brick.
You know you are a real backpacker when you can take a foot of hair and shape it anyway you like with your hands and it stays that way when you let it go.
You are in for a real treat. If I didn’t work for a living I’d be out 3 or 4 nights out of 7. Between ’90 and ’92 I spent well over 200 nights out on the trail. Most of that was in the Canyon. Enjoy your new second home.

Oh, my lightest 8 day pack ever was around 55 pounds. Many go much lighter but I don't give a crap. In the 70's I know I must have carried 80 pounds a time or two. I'd shoot for 45 if I could and I were you. That's with 24/36 hours of water.
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threedogz





Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 668
Location: Chandler

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Bags of Cotton Candy is great for ultra-lite packers... can even use it as a pillow!
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IGO





Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: 5/16/2007, 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Shawn wrote:
but the prime rib on the shuttle back to the car was the best ever.

Say it brother! Shout it out! Razz
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir
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Suz





Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3186

PostPosted: 5/17/2007, 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

American_Idol wrote:
1)1.5 lbs a day for average man
2)yes
3)at least 100 calories per ounce.
4)check out Freezer Bag Cooking

Ive been doing this for months.


AI--Thanks---working to keep food around 9-10lbs. I'll watch to make sure there are enough calories per ounce. Love the freezer bag cooking, thanks for that link.

MP--I'll grab some sandies, good suggestion. No bacon for me but I will have a variety of nuts. I'm undecided about the coffee. I don't NEED it but it sure will be nice to wake up surrounded by the blue water and slowly sip a cup while taking in the beauty. Let's say that's my ONE luxury food. I'll try a FD meal tonight without hot water. That might be a great way to shave off a little weight. Stocked up on dried fruit and will have triscuts for fiber---thanks for that tip. Great idea to cover pack with a T-Shirt! Finding a shady spot might be a trick but I'll remember to be conscious of that.

DG--I'm looking forward to the 6 days without needing to lug water. I will post food list tonight and would gladly welcome food switches. Hey Guru mentioned that you have a spreadsheet with meals/weight/water planned out like a couple of super technical people might do. Can you zip that over when you have time?

CynH-Today I'm not worried about the pricing of this but if the taste of your freeze dried chicken is better I'd give it a try. I actually like the FD meals and have NO issues or complaints about the taste. I don't think I could intentionally add olive oil to anything prior to eating it. I remember from the past that the water isn't cold and that was my one wish....colder water to drink would have been nice. I have a variety of trail mixes that I picked up at Albertson's the other day. I'm going to count calories tonight and will watch to see that I have enough. We won't be doing 20 miles a day because of the water, mud and quicksand. I have our pacing set at about 5-6 miles a day. I'm going to soak up every ounce of this place, explore every nook and cranny we can get into....unless of course something happens--then maybe we can pick up the pace. We even plan to spend two nights in one place.

YH--When I repackage my FD meals into freezer bags, I guess I am doing freezer bag cooking, right? That's what I do. I wish I could lose a pound a day on the trail. I end up gaining about a pound a day. When I take electrolyte tablets I seem to retain water and am back to normal weight after the hike within a few days, so I don't worry.

BNHD-Sound like a book I should snag. I'll have a stash of food in the car for when we get out. I can't ever wait to get to the restaurant...gotta eat before I even take my pack off.

JW---again, I'd be good with losing some weight Smile not likely to happen for me. I'm banking on gaining an extra 5-10 pounds.

Shawn---is that porterhouse shuttle available in the area we'll be in?

IGO--I am taking gatorade because the mineral content in the water makes in salty tasting. I didn't have any complaints about it last time but I do think it might be funky after 6 days of consuming it.....hey, maybe I don't need all that salty food...maybe there will be a natural suppliment in the water! I've always tried to figure out which food I'm looking forward to the most at the end of a hike and I haven't stumbled upon that one motivating food item....yet. Yes---the hair will most likely be a mess....maybe the shower and the blow dryer will be my thing I look forward to more than the food or cocktail.

3dogs-cotton candy? LOL. I couldn't eat that stuff....LOL....but I like the pillow idea.

You All are the best! Thanks for all of this. What else?
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Hnak





Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1766
Location: Prescott, AZ

PostPosted: 5/17/2007, 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Well, when I started out last Saturday, I had 17 pounds of food, for 9 days. Unfortunately, due to illness Wacko I didn't make it, and hiked back out the same day. I think that all the packs of tuna were kinda heavy, I'm looking for other ideas for lunch now....

If you can keep it to 9 - 10 pounds you'll be doing well...
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