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Tim's Picture Problems
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:42 pm    Post subject: Tim's Picture Problems Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ok, with my new camera I just can't seem to get the pictures to come out right. It's a Casio Exilim EX-Z60, just a point n' shoot. I've only taken it on 2 trips so far, but I'm not impressed yet. I love my Canon SD400's, yes that plural because I went through TWO of them with E-18 error's and the lenses quite working. Both times were unexpectedly and after trips, just quit working, no notice at all. So I wasn't willing to give them a 3rd shot at my money.

Anyways, I took 102 pictures on my last trip, about 20 of which I just flat out deleted because they looked like this.

Well I can't get the gallery to load up right now, but have a perfect picture show my case. I'm going to copy and paste what others wrote in the other thread, just so I can come here to look up info.
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

desertgirl wrote:
Hmmm....How about playing with cyan/blue saturation ( Selective Color Layer) and mask the effect's results from rest of the image - so that you can maintain the general feel of the image

Will post a quick tweak adjusting blue levels -- Just used Picasa since i have it handy ...



May you like it -- may be not ....

Do you have this problem with all your pictures ? Is your white balance set right ? Auto White Balance on the smaller cameras seem to do good for the most part
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
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Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

BoyNhisDog wrote:
Tim, did you post process that image at all? I have seen this mostly with the small sensor point & shoot cameras when the image was underexposed and they brought up with a levels adjustment. The camera sometimes severely processes the image in an "auto" sort of way as well and it can happen then as well.

If you started with good color and this happened when you adjusted the Levels, you can do a "fade to luminosity" and it might take that new color right back out. That is a valuable move in post processing. At times a Levels or Curves adjustment will mess with the colors. Even a sharpening can mess with them. I do a lot of Fade to Luminosities to avoid that. I made it an action and assigned it a F key.
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

dabreeze wrote:
Did you use a polarizer on this, Tim? The reason I ask is that the color change across the sky is similar to what happens when a polarizer is used with too wide an angle and parts of the sky are highly polarized (90 degree angle to the sun) while other parts are less so. If you were using a polarizer, this is when you have to be very careful using it.

in any case, in PS, the gradient tool will give you the uniform sky you want. First, you have to make a careful selection of the sky you want to correct. in this case, using the gradient tool for correction, you'll need to select the entire sky.

Then, using the color sampler/eyedropper tool, choose a color from the top of the portion of the sky color you like and make this your foreground color. Then choose a blue from the bottom of the sky and make this your background color. The two accurate sky colors will be the beginning and end points of the gradient you're going to use to replace the unwanted colors.

choose a linear foreground-to-background gradient from the menu for the gradient tool. the colors you've chosen for background/foreground should show in the gradient tool menu when you open it. then, just drag the gradient tool top to bottom across the sky selection. with careful selection you can probably even save little mr. cloud in the nuclear portion of the program!! good luck.

Down n' dirty looks like this:




more detailed instructions can probably be found with a google search of photoshop+gradient tool. amazing how much you can get from the internet these days.[/img]
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desertgirl





Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Oh Cool its back -- Smile


Here's the image ....that Dabreeze had posted
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ok, now that I've run up my post count a bit I can get back on topic.

Glen I may have tried to touch up the photo's a bit but not much, mainly I just tried to use the Auto Levels, Auto Contast and Auto Color. Sometimes I like what they do, other times I don't.

Dabreeze I did not use any type of polarizer, your picture turned out great IMO, I can see the little disortion? along the rim, but compared to what it was before I really like it.

Ambika I just have the camera set on the auto settings. Playing around with it right now, there is a manual white-balance which adjusts every time you hit the shutter botton, maybe thats what I need to do for every picture. I would just hate to have to adjust something for every picture I take. Thats why I have a simple point and shoot.

I will have to play around in photoshop some to learn the different tools in there. I have the 7.0 version, think I only know about .1 of that.

I have a picture I really wanted to post, but for some reason the gallery is not cooperating with me right now.
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desertgirl





Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Dunno -- I have been having issues getting up on the gallery for 2 days now Evil or Very Mad

Tim -- 200 or so more posts and you are #1
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BoyNhisDog
The dangerous place where the winds meet




Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Auto Levels or Auto Contrast can do that to the sky. I don't know if the Fade to Luminosity will work but it is worth a try. You can fade most any command right after you do the command. If you do anything else it is not available anymore. Look in the Edit menu after you run a command and you will see Fade. When you click on it a dialog box will pop up and in the drop down menu at the bottom you will see Luminosity. It may or may not work for the color shift. Good luck.

With your level of hiking ability, I would not worry about any other numbers. Mr. Green
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The sky was like that straight from the camera, it wasn't the auto options that did that. I only try to use the auto options to correct them. I did just try to use the auto levels, then tried using the fade to luminosity feature, but I could tell a noticeable difference.

Like I said, the images are coming from the camera like that, post processing is not what is causing it.

Hmm, now to try and figure out the gradient tool
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Davis2001R6





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Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Here is the picture I wanted to post.


That one is straight from camera.
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dabreeze





Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

took a bit more time with this version.



toughest and longest thing about this kind of correction work is getting a good selection to work with. high contrast boundaries between sky and mountains require a practiced hand at area selection using sometimes a variety of tools to refine your selection.

For this I used a combination of the color range selector, the magic wand, and the lasso both adding to and subtracting.

once selected, the gradient is pretty easy to use.

As for your GC shot: problem here looks like it's a pretty fair bit overexposed. As with so many GC pix like this, the dynamic range is just way beyond what any camera can handle, much less a P & S. This is where you would want to a) use a graduated neutral density filter to balance the exposure (allowing you see see what your optically-sophisticated eye sees, ie detail in shadows and in the bright sky/direct sunlight); or b) take two exposures--one for shadows, one for sky-- and blend them together in PS.

Side note, Tim: there's a very good book on Photoshop called "Photoshop for Nature Photographers" by Tim Grey that limits its instruction to the tools and processes used by landscape and nature photographers. Excellent, clear step-by-step instructions with a practice DVD. For all you can learn over three months of working with it, it's a graduate school bargain at $24.95!!

The learning curve is steep with Photoshop but once you reach what I call 'critical mass' most of it becomes easily understood and even somewhat intuitive just by experimenting.
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dabreeze





Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

wonder why the image comes up in preview and not when i submit it? oh well, maybe desertgirl can restore it as she did last time? thanks.
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Looks like I have quite a bit of learning to do. Hopefully I can learn how the camera's settings work to prevent having to do all this when you get home.

Your photo's is showing up for me Dabreeze. I'll see if I can't pick up that book as well.
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Matt Hoffman





Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Grantham, NH

PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

dabreeze wrote:
As with so many GC pix like this, the dynamic range is just way beyond what any camera can handle, much less a P & S. This is where you would want to a) use a graduated neutral density filter to balance the exposure (allowing you see see what your optically-sophisticated eye sees, ie detail in shadows and in the bright sky/direct sunlight).


Just wondering how this would be possible with a Point and Shoot. Would he have to buy a filter (like a Cokin or something) and hand-hold it in front of the lens? Seems like a pain in the butt.

Score 1 for SLR's!
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dabreeze





Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 1/15/2007, 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

actually, yes, matt, there are cokin styled filter holders designed for prosumer level digicams. wish they had 'em years ago when i started out with p/s, but now they're a godsend for the general consumer.

tim: getting it right in the camera in the field is always the best solution but even then, digital as a medium requires some work in the digital darkroom.

by its very nature, the digital capture process blurs edges (something called anti-aliasing) and thus MUST BE SHARPENED in post-production (either in camera, not very good; or in PS, much preferred) . no way around this.

also, if shooting in RAW for the most control, saturation levels are deliberately very dull and need some degree of boost.

add some black/contrast into the mid-tones and you have a pretty simple formula for post-production--that is, contrast + saturation + sharpening--that will work miracles with 90% of your captures. the most sophisticated of PS techniques to this end are, in truth, quite easy to pick up with a bit of dedication to the learning curve and repetition.

Get Tim Grey's book and start moving up the curve if you truly want to achieve the next level. Or try a weekend workshop (ask Suz) with Az Hwys or any one of a number of very good instructors (myself included).

As with anything in life, there's a bit of perspiration (mental in this case) involved. but really the results will be worth it. you get to so many incredible places, having really fine images will cement the memories for life!!

Good luck,

Derek von Briesen
Sedona, Arizona
www.pbase.com/sedonamemories
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