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Hikngrl
Canyoneering is my 'Happy Place'
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: Peoria, AZ
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 Posted: 1/15/2007, 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| desertgirl wrote: |
Now back to them water doplets ... and smoky water.  |
I believe the term was "fuzzy water"
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~~~Diane~~~
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IGO
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| azbackpackr wrote: |
| Those are nice, IGO. I don't know if you see AZ Hwys much or not, but I do think what people are getting at is they want a bit of variety. In addition to the waterfall shots, some of the photos in AZ Hwys of creeks have also been fuzzy. Although it is supposed to look like running water, sometimes it just looks, well, just all fuzzy. I don't think people were saying they NEVER wanted those type of photos, only they wanted SOME with freeze-frame. You can sometimes see the splashing of a creek better if it's not fuzzy, for example. The technique is over-used, and sometimes works better than other times. The ones you show here are examples of when the technique is working very well, I think. |
Oh no! I understand you exactly. I've tried a zillion times to freeze frame water in motion but if it doesn't freeze exactly the effect is lost.
You may remember I shot a few images of a violent flash flood a few months ago. I was dead in in front of the torrent, I mimiced 800ASA film and I shot at 1/4000 secong and STILL couldn't quit freeze it. Slow mo softens the flow of water. Freezing a shot can sometimes show more force than our own vision can fathom. I understand what all of you are saying for sure.
I did get a few nice shoys of the pacific coast breaking on rocks about 20 years ago. I'll hunt for those after I get this faster computer. LOL.
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir |
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IGO
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Hikngrl wrote: |
If you look at the pictures Ambika posted last vs the pictures IGO just posted you can see the water dance in Ambika's pictures. IGO's photos are beautiful but you can't see the water dance....I am aware that Ambika's are closer up as well and maybe that is a good way to define when the fuzzy stuff works for me... if it is close I want to see the water dance if it is far away you can't see it dance any way so go ahead and fuzz it....
This is an opinion and only an opinion so help me Homer! |
I understand Diane. I like both.
Maybe this thread will spir some of us to go out and try really hard to capture some stand still water. I'm going to read up a little and see what I can get.
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir |
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IGO
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| desertgirl wrote: |
| threedogz wrote: |
| I'm sure Ansel Adams would have a few words as well about all the "doctored" photography |
ya think Ansel Adams pictures were not "doctored"?
- There are techniques that have been used for a very very long time that modify saturation and exposure to bring out the best in pictures. ( Even Black and White - When I took some classes in photography - I was floored at how much you can "tweak" a BW photo) Of course having good composition, exposure, appropriate timing for dramatic lighting and sharpness is a absolute must.
- High end professional film changes exposure / saturation from what the human eye sees right at capture. Today, this done via Capture SW ( both in camera and outside) and by image development.
- Use of filters - The color brilliance and uniformity of details; vivid skys and clouds. Today when shooting digital - SW solutions address these as well.
- Did you ever wonder what some photo outlets had better pictures (Ritz/ Tempe Camera) than others ( say a walgreen or safeway) - Some places had prints that washed out others gave vibrant prints from same film -- well some one "doctored" the settings ( some times good/ sometimes bad)
- You gotta wonder - why does my snap of the same image not look like the picture postcard? The camera does not interpret what the human eye sees...it just captures pixels - You add the context - Some by adjustments to represent what the eye saw and some you can never (Why would I associate white ground with snow if I never saw/felt snow? or the crisp coolness of a winter morning if all I ever experienced was muggy tropical days ? )
Now " Over doctoring" -- that's different!
Very few images that are published are undoctored..... They are just well doctored 
 
 
These are Before-After from some one whose profesional work I look up to ....Thought I share a different prespective on this ....( Personally I do find the after image of Zabriski Point "doctored" but I am quite certain the "Before" image would not have registered in my mind as well )
BTW -- I have seen Zabriski point look both like picture on left and the one on the right with my own eyes. So which is right look ? Just depends ... |
Excellent Ambika.
Fact is, what the camera captures is not always what we remember seeing. The mind makes things the way we want to see them. Sometimes I put images back the way I remeber seeing them or I put them in a way that make me feel the way I felt when I was in a place. Never too much to take an images out of conceivable realism but enough to make me happy. I can't tell you how many times I've taken a telephone pole out of an otherwise fantastic shot.
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir |
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IGO
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| threedogz wrote: |
we are in a society where natural beauty is not good enough anymore...
from photography to botox and plastic surgery, we are surrounded by imitations and fabrications... |
Nothing compares to natural beauty. That's why I sit in it for weeks in a row. Still, the fabrications I derive from by visits into the wild are much more attractive that the white paint O bought from wal-mart. 
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir |
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IGO
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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A very fine read Mr. dabreeze!
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"Surely all God's people, however serious or savage, great or small, like to play. Whales and elephants, dancing, humming gnats, and invisibly small mischievous microbes - all are warm with divine radium and must have lots of fun in them." John Muir |
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Daryl
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1168
Location: Everett, Washington
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Some points,
Everyone likes what they like and everyone likes something different. I've done family shoots and the photos I think are the best, they think are ho-humm, while the ones I was even hesitant to show them, they love. Same story when I go out shooting landscape and nature.
As for Mr Adams, if he had Photoshop he would have never left the house.
As for Az Highways, they only accept film (unless they changed recently) and they don't allow much doctoring. I have noticed the past few years the quality of the photos in their calendars has gone down. I attribute this to more pro shooters going to digital.
As for the motion blur of moving water with a slow shutter, it's a difficult thing to do as the conditions and settings have to be just right. It can be over done, it can be done when it doesn't need to be done, and when done just right, it can make for an amazing photo (at least in my opinion...):
click for full size
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Davis2001R6
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome picture Daryl,
I do find that hard to believe that about Arizona Highways though. |
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desertgirl
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Daryl -- Thanks for reposting that picture. Its most awesome.
I think AZhighways is now more open to digital work (in non-landscape articles) -- One of my friend has some digital work published in there & what she showed me was quite doctored as well ... very subtle in the effects as well as some outstanding light and compostion as well as "decisive moment" omph! I'd like to think the composition etc far outweight anything in their selection process ... If she had not shown me how she worked the image -- I'd have totally believed it was 100% unaltered.
Dunno -- some recent pictures are downright fuzzy -- wonder if the photo editor is asleep at the wheel. Some definite cases of overenlargement and pushed saturation was well.  They are also deviating from landscapes to more people/places stories etc as well to ensure they stay in business. Much of the features are now online.
Added: reviewed their guidelines -- They are still offlimits for digital landscape work. Some more acceptance in general articles etc.
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Life is but a dream ...there is no end to what you can dream! |
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paintninaz
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 3515
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| Posted: 1/15/2007, 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| desertgirl wrote: |
| I think AZhighways is now more open to digital work (in non-landscape articles) -- One of my friend has some digital work published in there & what she showed me was quite doctored as well ... very subtle in the effects as well as some outstanding light and compostion as well as "decisive moment" omph! I'd like to think the composition etc far outweight anything in their selection process ... If she had not shown me how she worked the image -- I'd have totally believed it was 100% unaltered. |
interesting, especially since their website states differently....
| Quote: |
Photo Submission Guidelines.
Thank you for your inquiry regarding photography in Arizona Highways. Although the magazine and our Related Products (calendars, books, cards, etc.) are all planned many months ahead, we welcome photographic submissions of original transparencies and 35mm slides that exhibit the high quality that we demand from our professional contributors.
In order to achieve the high-quality reproductions in our publications, we prefer large format (4x5) transparencies, especially for the large scenic landscapes that we are famous for. We will use medium format and 35mm transparencies that display exceptional quality and content. Some subjects such as wildlife and people are best suited to 35mm, but in order to achieve high-quality reproduction they must be shot on fine-grained color slide film (100 ISO or slower). NO PRINTS, NEGATIVES, DIGITAL-CAPTURE PHOTOGRAPHS, OR DUPLICATE TRANSPARENCIES WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR REVIEW BY THE PHOTOGRAPHY EDITORS. Edit your photos carefully before submitting. More is not necessarily better. Submit only the images that are as good as or better than those you see in our magazine, books, and calendars. Midday light is the worst for photography of any kind, but especially bad for landscape photography. Try to be original, and avoid visual clichés like saguaro silhouettes at sunset. |
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desertgirl
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| Posted: 1/16/2007, 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Tracy - I read their official guidelines but I do know what was published as well so I am  may be you can just shoot a slide picture if your tweaked digital image  and then it would meet their publishing guidlines 
I get the magazine digitally now ....not the same as thumbing through the pages but I do like the pictures better since they now have a luminosity that viewing them on a monitor gives
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Photos: http://www.pbase.com/desertgirl/galleries
Life is but a dream ...there is no end to what you can dream! |
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paintninaz
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 3515
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| Posted: 1/16/2007, 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| desertgirl wrote: |
| Tracy - I read their official guidelines but I do know what was published as well so I am may be you can just shoot a slide picture if your tweaked digital image and then it would meet their publishing guidlines |
Oh I wasn't doubting your info on what was published, just wondering why they haven't "updated" their guidelines. Maybe just to keep every amateur digital photographer out there from submitting countless photos? 
I guess one needs to have an inside edge.
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“Friends make the bad times good — and the good times unforgettable.” |
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Suz
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3186
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| Posted: 1/16/2007, 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| There was an issue in the past year (I think) that had a column dedicated to the debate about digital or medium/large format. Wish I could remember more about it. |
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