Lost Hikers found 13 miles off course on Mt Baldy?

sam_hikes · Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 383

Not sure how 2 experienced scouts travel 13 miles off course on the super highway sheeps crossing trail on Mt Baldy? If info is correct they were found on the SW side of Mt Baldy which is on the Apache Res? Sheeps crossing trail is very wide and easy to follow so this is strange event.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0803missing03.html

BoyNhisDog · Posted: 8/3/2003, 7:31 pm Post subject:

It sounds like they became disoriented in the lighting/hail storm. If they did not have a simple compass on them, the bad weather and trees along with the rugged terrain must have had them turned around to where they were confused. If the weather was bad enough, maybe they couldn't see the peak or any other landmarks. Shocked

Too bad the story didn't tell more details.
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sherileeaz · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 874

matt gilbert · Joined: 28 Jul 2003 Posts: 698 Location: Mesa

If they were experienced scouts, why didn't they have a compass with them?

Guest · Posted: 8/4/2003, 12:55 am Post subject:

Well, for one thing, it must not mean much these days to be an experienced scout! I'm guessing, when these events take place, there is a leader in charge of these kids. Would be interesting to hear his/her excuse for losing two scouts! They are making a big statement here...if some of the kids are slower, run off and leave them. Not acceptable!

BoyNhisDog · Posted: 8/4/2003, 4:57 am Post subject:

GTG · Posted: 8/4/2003, 6:45 am Post subject: lost and such

I saw one of the boys interviewed last night. He stated that next time he'd stay with the group. Well that's fine and dandy unless the whole group is lost. It seems to me the lesson that should be learned is navigation and orientation.
Sounds like the start of another boy scout discussion like over on HAZ.

Where's Daddee on this?

GTG
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sam_hikes · Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 383

TV news report indicated they were found on the Res outside Whiteriver.

Sounds like they went up and over Baldy to the backside.

Now that's really lost!

sherileeaz · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 874

sam_hikes · Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 383

Something doesn't smell right.

Scouts with no food, water, or proper gear climb up and over Mt Baldy for 13 miles?

Scout leader doesn't report them missing till 4am?

Wonder if this was some sort of scout test or hazing thing?

azhiker96 · Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 1419

, I am almost in tears after reading that article! Laughing

It's the last line, where the mother says this proves to her that her son is ready to be an Eagle scout! Does this mean he gets his "Unable to follow a trail" badge? Also, what about the scout leaders? I've taken many different groups on different trips, once I took a group of a dozen 10-12 yr old girl scouts on a night hike. I've never lost a person. The key is to have a responsible party at the front AND the end of the formation. I'd be embarassed to be part of that pack.

sam_hikes · Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 383

CatValet · Posted: 8/4/2003, 10:27 am Post subject: lost scouts

Something not said, is my guess. I was a scoutmaster for 7 years. The LAST thing you want is to bring a boy home in a body bag. When Scouts get seperated from the troop, the usual explanations may include:

1. Non-allowed foods
2. Alcohol
3. Cigarettes
4. "Mens' Magazines" and, um, er, self gratification Rolling Eyes

5. Hazing, bullying and ostacising of a socially unaccepted boy (these kids are generally identified by the other kids calling them "Geek" "Fatty" or "Goat Boy" ). This is usually a failure of adult supervision, but in rare cases is justified, like the kid I had that we tried to feed to the bears....

In the case of Baldy, there may be an additional explanation. Since the Indians preclude actual summiting by non-Indians, they may have been attempting a sneak to the summit in order to "Bag the Peak" If they did so and observed others approaching, they may have tried to avoid apprehension by heading for the cover of forest. The nearest cover to the otherwise bare summit "bald" is to the west. I've been to the benchmark twice, and both times I was in a hurry.....Rumors that Indians will confiscate gear AND arrest, may have increased the paranoia.

Just a guess, but I wouldn't be at all surprised that's what really happened.

sam_hikes · Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 383

This thread is getting more interesting!

sam_hikes · Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 383

I believe this to be a true statement.

Forest Service confirms Apache Indian Police as well as Indian regulars? will take your gear and anything else they desire if they find you on their side of Mt Baldy. Forest Service says Indian Policy have 4x4 road near their Peak which they can see you but can't see them until it's too late?

Last year there was a giant sign at the trail junction/NFS summit that was very vague & unsigned--then a couple months later there were no signs or fences so one wouldn't know they were now on illegal land?