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IGO





Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: 7/10/2006, 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Most interesting read.
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 9/25/2006, 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

10.5 miles of canyoneering, caving and hiking ( by someone's GPS).

We begin by parking near a locked gate after a long and scenic dirt road drive. This is private property; we have been told that the rancher will tolerate hikers, not hunters or 4X4 driving. Crawl thru the fence, and walk the sandy road as it undulates through beautiful low desert terrain. Saquaros show up, some of the most dense, healthiest looking and largest I've seen ---estimates are some of the multiarmed giants easily top 40-50 feet. By an old tank and windmill we leave the road, which has been following a wash, and immediately enter a spectacular canyon, for southern arizona.
It is entirely white, streaked marble. It slots up quickly and twists and turns, logs jammed at times, and silt filled wet pools. Glorious colors in the heavy dense stone, rose, green, lavendar, grays and blacks. The canyon quickly deepens, and opens slightly, to huge house sized boulders and the floor of the canyon becomes multilevel. We quickly locate the known cave we are seeking, it is short, about 300 feet, and has a small bat roost at the end. The cave is marbelized too, with subterrainian swirls, a jump down here and there. It is a thru cave, and we come out to a bench about 25 feet above stream level. As we climb down, a few in our party say look, there is a snake on a tree branch about 4 people have already been over. I climb back up for the pic, a small guy curled up, identified by a couple of guys as a Mohave rattler. Rather placid though, never stirred except the darting of the tonque with all the action around him.

Another bat roost, a lot more substantial by the piles of quano, is found nearby in a massive leaning boulder alcove.
We continue down the canyon, we have info that perhaps other caves are in the vacinity with intrusions of limestone nearby. The canyon slots up again and again, now comes the fun stuff, pool wading, jumping into pools, the tall people stem and bridge around, downclimbing by wedging and jamming. We have handline but don't need it.
The rock is slick and a couple of people take a little more of a swim than planned. The marble rock is gone, and it is dense dark gothic stone, the sandy dark hallway.

We find another cave ( and another and another) this second cave is fascinating and we will return to push some passage on it. Though mostly dormant in the front room, the back shows growth, water on formations, some interesting coral like growth, and a small tube like passageway that goes possibly, but is for skinny people and will be a head or foot first one on back or stomach, and need a handline as the floor starts to slope into a slide. We were not prepared for serious exploring as we had no helmets or knee pads, as we had been told the known cave was very short. We did have good lighting.
I find a skull obviously placed on a rock, of some carnivore, possibly mountain lion.
The canyon starts to open and we come to a fork, we go down one and try to locate the other caves. This involves climbing up and around on unstable, thorn bush filled cliffs. We find what we came for, one is a short pit and the other I'll save the details for. Some things are too good to be true, as they say.
It is getting late and we can't decide to reverse the route or continue up the canyon we are in and go over the mountain. We decide to reverse it, it is so beautiful going back up in the waning light. I have to get help up at one spot, the "third degree assault"; two guys pushing me up a no hand or foot hold wall hand on each side of my butt. I get high enough to get the edge of a boulder and pull myself on up. We are hot and tired and the water is refreshing. Up the road by headlamp light. The stars are incredible.

We all almost fall asleep at the dinner table in the nearby small town before the long drive home. What a great day, great hike, great company, great caves, awesome canyon. It doesn't get any better than this.
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 9/25/2006, 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Pics for this adventure are here
http://www.arizonahikers.com/forum/modules.php?set_albumName=albvi44&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Sparrish





Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 239
Location: Phleeenix

PostPosted: 9/25/2006, 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Oustanding writing, Letty, have you ever published anything?

I agree with Hooli, you could never talk me into going into a cave, as I'm claustrophobic as %$#@. I have no problem with exposure to heights or climbing up a wall (used to lead up to 5.8-9 sport, but retired due to arthritis) but I think I got locked in a closet or something when I was little, because I panic even thinking about crawling through one of those tiny passages.
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 10/1/2006, 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Had fun at the regional caving meeting, traditionally held in the north part of the state; this time near Grand Canyon Caverns. The commercial cave is a big cave in the Redwall but not impressive as it has no formations. We worked a dig off the tourist trail following air flow. I got to run a power Jackhammer in a space about 8 inches wide. I was not very good at it.
Meeting other cavers and seeing different styles and stories make these meetings. I met two fellows I ran off with to ridge walk some limestone canyons, and try to find caves.

I never knew a two wheel drive Toyota pick up could go so many places. And I thought I was a kamikaze driver. Almost wore my helmet in the truck. We tore down dirt roads, I got plenty of exercise opening and closing about a million gates. We walked several canyons, until we landed on a spot they had been to about 5 years before. The cave was a pit, then drop thru a bottle neck into the passage winding into the hill side. I brought vertical gear so we were all set. The rope was rigged then I was asked "You wanna be the intrepid explorer and go first?" They didn't have to ask twice. Something about rappelling a drop as the first one is kinda exciting, especially in a cave. This one was a tight about 6 foot wedge in, then a small slope. Some old wood crossbeams were in there and you had to squeeze by that. I had my smallest pack and wished it was smaller. Then the 40 foot drop, mostly against a wall. I just walked down, had a small undercut to negotiate then a crack at the bottom.

This cave was heavily decorated; also had been heavily vandelized. Still beautiful with formations, and some new stuff trying to grow. Saw some "shark's teeth" and some nice draperies. The main passage was walkable but all the offshoots were crawlers. One of my partners stayed behind as he could not fit through the "bottle neck". So it was Bri and I and we looked around and I took lots of pics. He is a real explorer who has discovered more than a few caves, and an agressive caver. He is also very protective of the caves. I don't think I could find this place again if I tried, and asked them not to tell me the name of the cave so I could honestly say "I don't know".

Climbing out was fun. I was the last one. I had almost everything go wrong. My shoe came untied, my ascender safety cord to my harness got tangled in the climbing rope. I decided to climb the wall using my ascenders as safety's only. I kept having to maneuver one with my hand which messed up my climbing. I had to lean back at the undercut to get one knee up to the ledge, I put my chest ascender under a lot of stress at the angle; I thought if this thing pops off I am upside down and would hope the other ascender would hold me. I finally got up there and the guys looked relieved.
We got to the meeting late and got the "where were ya'll" looks.

I decided I had enough caving despite a nice invitation to join the guys the second day. I had an area on the way back to Tucson I wanted to check out. Again, I took the long dirt road, and something strange happened. I had a destination, but stopped short. As I looked down a canyon from the road, I knew something was there. I pulled over, parked, got my day pack, and took off. The canyon was initially a bushwack, then opened up to rocks, then narrowed down to marvelous mostly light colored granite, some streaked heavily. A stream flowed, and all at once opened up to rocky "boxes" wall to wall with water. I was not prepared for swimming with my gear. I climbed around, a surpisingly tough task, bouldering, class 4 scrambles with some exposure. I finally got down the canyon somewhat and got low to take a swim. Some big fish flopped about nearby. It was heavenly. The easiest way would be to swim the boxes, a lot faster than trying to avoid the water. I went a little farther; the canyon waterway now lined with a single row of willows, some cottonwood and sycamores; then with time against me, came back another side of the canyon, slightly easier.
This place is a keeper. It showed no signs of traffic, no trail and no trash. I will return.
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 11/5/2006, 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The Big One, dropping a pit that is. 175 feet. And not a straight shot either. Of course had to go thru part of the cave to get there, so that was interesting too.
Our group was about 11, only 7 dropped the pit. We climbed in the cave, climbed the entrance room, then a roped traverse. We dropped a little 30 footer to view some nice rooms with slickensides and fossilized brachiopods on the walls. I watched one guy climb out with just an ascender, and decided to use my full rig. It really makes climbing almost effortless.

On the way to the Big Pit, we had to reverse a climb I don't like. I decided to try a 25 foot chimney with a handline. The rig wasn't the best, but I was confident with my back on one side of the wall and my feet on the other I wasn't going anywhere too fast. I had to stretch a little but liked that way down better.
The rigging at the Pit was a work of art. Tensionless, the rappel point backed up times two, all natural anchors, no carabiners in the system. The lip was padded to protect the rope. The rap was basically two pitches, one about 75 feet, the 100 feet.
The first group used racks and took their packs. We also had radios. The rope was stiff and upon their return they advised figure 8's and no pack. I put on my ascending chest harness, a spare ascender, the safety, in my pocket attached to my harness and my foot loops, spare biners, light, and webbing in a small pouch suspended from my harness. I rapped with my "pirahna" a fig 8 like device ( not really) with "ears" to supply more friction or to use to lock off--- a practice to safely hang suspended if you need to do something.

The first 75 feet more or less against a wall, going thru a key-hole like slot. You get to a small ledge. From there the rope had been tied off to allow rappelling or ascending the same time with two pitches. One caver was coming up, another on the ledge so I wedged myself comfortably still on rope about 5 feet above the crossover point, in a chimney position.
He came up underneath me, I came down and switched over to the second pitch. A little crowded there momentarily. The second pitch was a nightmare. At one point you must drop thru a tight hole, with nothing but space underneath you for 40 or so feet. I was anxiously checking my attachments as I scraped thru there, no way to keep your equipment off the rocks. I almost hung my helmet up here too. Then you are free and have to keep control of the rope after coming thru the tight area. A second "wedgie" is about 20 feet off the bottom, very awkward also. Finally the small bottom, maybe a few feet of passage. We all sign the register.
As soon as my compadre was down I started up. Ascending this second pitch was worse than the descent, where gravity helps you. At both tight areas, I deployed my safety ascender above the lips of the rock ledges I was wedging against. Again, better have upper body strength if you are a caver. However, at the ledge I didn't rest, I wasn't tired at all. Switched over and climbed. When my ascending system wasn't crammed against a wall I moved up very efficiently and with very little effort. At the top one of the guys had a treat for us, blueberry cheesecake, the dehydrated kind. It tasted pretty good at that moment.
We derigged and made our way out, coming out to darkness as ususal. I had to get to the Galiuros for a photo shoot the next day so didn't hang around for too long. More Pit plans coming up!!!
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Davis2001R6





Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 5591
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 11/5/2006, 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Amazing Letty! I would love to checkout a cave "Once", but I think I know how that would end---Making plans for the next weekend.
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 12/31/2006, 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Starroom---stardate 12-30-06

The children have been let loose. After a little over a year and half of caving pretty steadily no senior cavers accompany us this trip. Six of us, most of us have caved together a lot over the past year. One newby. We are going on a difficult trip, and we feel the freedom yet responsibility of the care of the cave, and the safety of ourselves and others.
Time to put our training to work.

The Starroom is reputed to be difficult to access, yet incredibly beautiful and untouched due to the hard to reach area. Supposedly it has been years since anyone has been there, the older cavers mostly not caving anymore, and size wise the entrance rules out all but the relatively small and wiry. And it is tricky to locate, not obvious. We are armed with some sketchy information, a 100 foot rope and 50 foot handline for our trip. We move rapidly through the initial part of the cave, climbing well, and soon are at the destination. The corner of a small room, a lip, raised off the floor, and you peer in a key hole shaped slot down a stone tube, you cannot see beyond a tantalizing 12 feet or so, and another small semi round portal of stone. It is vertical and a slightly rotated. We rig high from the center of the small room, and since I am the "pusher" for going to this room, I put my harness on and decide I will be first to go.
I elect to run the rope thru my pirahna device and let it run freely until I drop thru the ceiling. The camera in its' tupperware container and bag is suspended from my waist down low as is a small bag with acending gear and spare light. A safety ascender is clipped to my harness and slung over my shoulder for a just-in- case. I know from past experience other places where it is so tight you can't reach anything better have something close to you to grasp if you need it.

Sure enough the descent does not disapoint. I wiggle into the keyhole, like putting on a recalcitrant pair of jeans. I have no need to hold the rope and it is very tight. I have one arm down and one arm up over my head. I carefully rotate slightly and feel with my feet. My view is only of a stone wall a few inches away. It's a mental exercise in here, and feeling every inch of your body move; find it's way. Gravity helps. I slowly slip down, adjusting if I seem to wedge, and descend the chute. A play by play is given to the other cavers by one who is monitoring my progress. Once thru the second slot he will loose sight and I'll be on my own. The second slot requires more repositioning and at one point I take my helmet off to slide on down, then just sit it loosely on top of my head. I have a spare headlamp on a strap around my neck, tucked into my shirt.
The passage bells out and I am in the top of the room. I quickly get control of the rap device and slowly come to a wall and walk on down. The room explodes in the light of my headlamp into a thousand sparkly pure white crystals. A profusion of bristly helectites thrust out at every angle. I move carefully in the delicate room, at the bottom I call "off rope" and then "WOW!!!"
Alice in Wonderland in the hole. What an amazing place. The walls are covered in the aragonite crystal, so dense it seems that the whole wall is stickered with giant snowflakes in various shapes, all with spikey tips. There is some color here and there, pale yellows, root beer.
Formations too, around the corner a massive heavily decorated shield, flowstone, et al. The camera goes to work; I am frustrated with my lack of technical skill, do the best I can using my finger at times to partially block the flash to try and avoid "whiting" out everything. I get a call for a belay and go back and help the two other guys who can make it come down. The others stay topside, unable to fit the hole. We point out incredible details to each other, and muse at the crazy wanderings of the helectites which defy gravity and curl every which way. One soda straw, the diameter smaller than my little finger, is over 7 feet long, well taller than any of us. How long does that take, we wonder??
We are not here long, yet it seems eternity is here and we are in it. Time is not relative. It is time for the ascent, I dread it and rightfully so. The first guy up is an excellent climber and is thin and strong. He struggles quite a bit at the top, then it is my turn. We had been told by an old timer that to get out you might have to be pulled out from above. I had brought a hauling pully, with a lock off on it, just in case. I use a full ascending set up for the initial part, just to save energy from climbing. It'll be tough soon enough. The second slot descending, first slot ascending is my nemesis. My upper body gets partially thru, then your legs are just hanging, or in my case I have one foot in a loop to rest and support. The problem is it is so tight I cannot advance my ascending device and can't bend my knee at any rate to come up thru the hole. I take everything off my waist except my harness and pass it up. I even pass my helmet up, it feels it is blocking my vision and I pull my small headlamp up onto my head. Your upper body is also poorly positioned with poor leverage to get you up. I struggle so much I sweat fiercely, waves of steam come up from the hole. The caver above me says " Relax, calm down". I do so, and rest. Don't panic, you will get out. Amusingly, he calmly says, "Boy, you know some bad words I don't think I've even heard some of those combinations", I have to laugh and say "Just wait, you'll hear some more right now".

I somehow get it together, move a few inches, then the world opens up, I come up the keyhole. A little more. I am exhausted suddenly. A bottle of water is handed to me and I drink deeply. The final push out. I flop out like a fish on the floor, so glad to be out. The caver who was first up announces" I'll never go down there again, that was the hardest thing I've ever done and that last part freaked me out". By the end of the trip we were talking about a return and survey---haha, painful memories can be shortlived in the presence of beauty.

We move on, after eating for energy. We stop for lunch, then the group splits, three heading out and taking their time to wait for us at the entrance. We will head for another remote photo op, not far away but requiring more rappelling. We set the rope, down the slope, then a tricky slick as snot upclimb, to another spectacular room hidden away for eons. Small idyllic clear pools, islands in the floor, majestic columns. It's all good. We slide down a slope on our butts, I tear out the seat of my pants but luckily have tights on underneath ( Descended the Starroom in tights and a tight tank top, no loose clothing in there). We climb up using just safety ascenders, derig and move on so the others won't have to wait too long, more fun climbing and crawling and sliding. At the entrance we put on our warmer approach clothing, it's dark and cold outside now. When we come out the moonlight makes the snow in the hills around us glow eeriely. Something unmatched in the feeling right after you come out of a cave to the world. The space change is just incredible to me. We group together down at the vehicles, talking, drinking, planning under the moon's watchful gaze. The post caving winddown. Another great day and another great place. Magical----
Pics up later, have more shenanigans planned for New Years--
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BoyNhisDog
The dangerous place where the winds meet




Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: 12/31/2006, 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

While reading this I had to tell myself the same thing the caver above you said to you, relax and calm down. This is excruciatingly high adventure. Vicarious only for me as I would never go in a place that tight. I do like the slots but become uneasy when they get too tight even. May you go on forever.
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desertgirl





Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 12/31/2006, 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Very cool Letty! Yup - I got claustrophobic just reading about it! Confused Cant wait for your pictures
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Arizonaheat
Got Supes Juice?




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 1741
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: 1/2/2007, 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Glad you didn't get stuck in there.

I can see you doing a infomercial, you take your clients in, get them stuck in what ever size hole they want to fit throuh and when they can slither through they have been a success.

I lost 120 pounds on the Redroxx, Wedged in a Hole Diet in six months, this plan really works..........
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 1/2/2007, 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Starroom pics up at http://www.arizonahikers.com/forum/modules.php?set_albumName=albvj65&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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IGO





Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 4144
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: 1/2/2007, 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Some of the best yet!
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desertgirl





Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 3350
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 1/3/2007, 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

RedRoxx44 wrote:
Starroom pics up at http://www.arizonahikers.com/forum/modules.php?set_albumName=albvj65&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


Mind boggling indeed -- Very Happy This is sure a special place. Thanks for the pictures - they complement your write up so well
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Arizonaheat
Got Supes Juice?




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 1741
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: 1/3/2007, 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Wow, great pics. The one going down the hole gives great perspective.

1 and 5 look like hoar frost, I saw some just like it on the rocks going to Reavis over the weekend. Quite the resemblence.

Loved the snow covered mountain shot.
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