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Snakeproofing a Dog?

 
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Richard





Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Flagstaff

PostPosted: 4/26/2004, 5:26 pm    Post subject: Snakeproofing a Dog? Reply to topic Reply with quote

I thought I had read some posts recently concerned with this subject, but I cannot find them now.

Neither of my dogs has ever encountered a poisonous snake before and while one of them often seems to be wary of dangerous varmints (porcupines are the worst problem here in Nova Scotia) the other is quite likely to "investigate" the first rattlesnake he encounters and I believe the probability of him being bitten at some point is quite high.

What do dog owners do to prevent their dog from getting poisoned by a rattlesnake bite?

And please direct me to an already existing post if it's here somewhere and I just have not been able to find it.

Thanks!
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Tom Treks
Gear Addict




Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 3347

PostPosted: 4/26/2004, 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Here ya go Richard. This is highly recommended around these parts.

http://www.arizonahikers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1225&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
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mike
What box?




Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134

PostPosted: 4/26/2004, 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

You'll find most of that information in this topic:
http://www.arizonahikers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1225

Also, try this site:
http://www.snakeproofing.com

And K9hiker's site has a list of trainers about 2/3's of the way down this page:
http://www.mydogateaz.com/k9hike.html
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evenstar





Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 5548
Location: SCW by way of CA

PostPosted: 4/26/2004, 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Rich goes in tomorrow a.m. for Snakeproofing 102....wish him (me!) luck!
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John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902
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Richard





Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Flagstaff

PostPosted: 4/26/2004, 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

That will be my third stop! (Gotta get to a post office and find a place to stash my junk first) Smile

That will be money well spent. Don't much like the idea of shocking my poor poochies.... but the alternative is MUCH worse.

Thank you for the info!
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Leva





Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Hidden Valley (Maricopa area) AZ

PostPosted: 4/26/2004, 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

For what it's worth, snakebite is not normally fatal in dogs. It CAN be, particularly in a small pooch or according to my vet, one bit on the chest wall, but most survive without any real damage. The only dog I personally know of who's died of a snakebite was sixteen years old, and dropped dead two weeks after the bite, so the death of the dog may or may not have been related to the bite.

I live in a rural part of the state where rattlesnakes are pretty common, and *shrug*, dogs get bit. Happens all the time out here, and many of the ranchers simply treat the bit dog with benadryl and an antiobiotic and the dog generally gets better.

One of mine got bit on the foot, and it was a $350 vet visit plus a week of meds, but there was no scarring, not even any hair loss.

Snake training is a good idea, of course, but if your dog DOES get bit on the trail -- and it happens -- calmly take the dog to the vet, and expect the dog to live. Smile Also expect a fat vet bill.

What ***I*** wish someone would offer was toad training -- those big, fat, ugly colorado river toads will kill a pooch a hell of a lot faster than a snake will. I do know of several dogs who died of apparant toad poising. Both my dogs leave the toads strictly alone, but my neighbors lost a dog last summer to one and I've lost chickens when the $@%#$ toads get into the chicken pens. Those things are deadly poisonous.

Leva
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JW
I'll make rain with my spaceman powers!




Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 1296

PostPosted: 4/27/2004, 12:38 am    Post subject: snake awareness, etc. Reply to topic Reply with quote

Leva wrote:
For what it's worth, snakebite is not normally fatal in dogs. It CAN be, particularly in a small pooch or according to my vet, one bit on the chest wall, but most survive without any real damage. The only dog I personally know of who's died of a snakebite was sixteen years old, and dropped dead two weeks after the bite, so the death of the dog may or may not have been related to the bite.

I live in a rural part of the state where rattlesnakes are pretty common, and *shrug*, dogs get bit. Happens all the time out here, and many of the ranchers simply treat the bit dog with benadryl and an antiobiotic and the dog generally gets better. Leva
Most AZ dogs are of a linage (parents-grandparents, etc.) that have encountered Rsnakes and obviously survived. They usually have the survival/avoidance genes.

Dogs like Rock and Harly are pretty trail-wise/snake-wise because of their predecessor's survival experiences, etc. They wouldn't be here if it were otherwise.

However, a dog like Hooli's Rich, has a totally different linage, and has different inherited response patterns, both physiologically and behavorially. He definitely should be avoidance trained because of his size and his IQ/curiosity.

"...treat the bit dog with benadryl and an antiobiotic...". That's about the basic for humans, too. The allergic reaction to the venom is a separate issue, but the deep-puncture wound is significant because of where their fangs have been: they eat rodent's, mice and rats, etc. Blood-poisoning is probably the biggest factor.
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evenstar





Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 5548
Location: SCW by way of CA

PostPosted: 4/27/2004, 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I would think there are plenty of snakes in the Basenjis' native habitat which is Southern Sudan and Zaire and I've read that Basenjis are instinctively wary of snakes; Rich obviously didn't read that part Shocked The snakeproofing site does say that dogs with strong hunting instinct are more difficult to train and Basenjis have survived for thousands of years in Africa by being successful hunters. I just hope they can teach Rich that snakes ain't good things to hunt. Rolling Eyes
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John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902
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k9hiker





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 390
Location: NW Phoenix

PostPosted: 6/13/2004, 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Evenstar,
How did the snakebreaking go? Who did you use?
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Jamie
Canine Hiking Club of AZ
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evenstar





Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 5548
Location: SCW by way of CA

PostPosted: 6/14/2004, 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Used: http://www.snakeproofing.com/


didn't go to well, with Rich; his hunting instincts are too strong and instead of fleeing the snakes he wanted to hunt it. After three sessions ginally got him to the point that, tho' he wouldn't run away, he wouldn't try to get at the snake.
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John Richardson and Richie Rich, El Perro de Playero
http://members.tripod.com/~evenstar/index.html
http://www.arizonahikers.com
When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902
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Daryl





Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1168
Location: Everett, Washington

PostPosted: 6/14/2004, 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I don't want to sway anybody's opinion, so let me say that I have Border collies and they are a little different then most dogs.

We had our first dog snake proofed. I don't think the place we took him to did a very good job and he hasn't been the same since. I wasn't there, but if I was I would have stopped it. When they brought him to the first bin of snakes, he wanted nothing to do with them. They dragged him up to the cage and then shocked him when he showed interest.
At that point I'd have said, okay, safe bet he's good. They proceeded to drag him to another cage, this time he put up more of a fight. After they forced him to look at the snakes, they zapped him a second time. Then they did it a third time!
After the third shock, he shut down. He'd do nothing but lay down and tremble. It took a stop at the dog park and some playing, on the reccomendation of our vet, on the way home to get him to walk on his own and stop trembling. After that, he was afraid of everything. It took well over a year to get him out of most of his fears, but he's still afraid of a lot of new things, and this comes from a puppy that was fearless..

We have not had our second dog snake proofed. I would never do that to another dog I owned again.
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paintninaz





Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 3515

PostPosted: 6/14/2004, 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Daryl,

Sorry to hear about your dog's bad experience with the snake proofing. I think the overall idea of the snakeproofing is good, but the program doing it should also know enough to realize that all dogs are not the same, they may not all require being zapped "X" number of times. The first shock was most likely necessary...you don't want the dog to just ignore the snakes (if they stand there ignoring the snakes' warning they are more likely to get bit), you do want the dog to avoid the snakes when given warning.

But I'd have to agree they went too far with your pooch. I would think that they could've seen from his resistance and putting up a fight going to the 2nd box that he had already learned from the first shock...they should've stopped there. Perhaps it was the handlers error?

I had Rocky snakeproofed after seeing his total oblivious reaction to the rattler we encountered on the Reavis trail...they did zap him twice, but said it wasn't needed on the third box b/c he hightailed it and ran as soon as he caught a wiff of the box. He was a little shaken after the whole experience, but nothing like your poor dog, and once we got in the car he was happy again.

However, I will say, that we haven't come across any snakes since his snakeproofing so I have no idea whether it was actually worth it or not...I would like to think so Confused
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“Friends make the bad times good — and the good times unforgettable.”
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Suzaz
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PostPosted: 6/14/2004, 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Tracy didn't you say that Rocky had a seizure about a week ago? I wonder if there could be some sort of a delayed reaction....I hope the two weren't related.

How is Rocky doing?
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paintninaz





Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 3515

PostPosted: 6/14/2004, 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Suzaz wrote:
Tracy didn't you say that Rocky had a seizure about a week ago? I wonder if there could be some sort of a delayed reaction....I hope the two weren't related.

How is Rocky doing?


That would've had to been some delayed reaction! I don't think the two are related. I've talked to the vet quite a bit, I'm almost certain his seizure was due to something outside that he got into.

He's doing fine...he had a blast on Sat., I'm not so sure he enjoyed Sunday as much Rolling Eyes but he looks pretty happy today! Mr. Green
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“Friends make the bad times good — and the good times unforgettable.”
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