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primerob





Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 10

PostPosted: 4/20/2004, 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I suspect I know and have hiked w/ the the "useless one" and his critters:-)
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kurthzone
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Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 1097
Location: Peoria, Arizona

PostPosted: 4/20/2004, 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

primerob wrote:
I suspect I know and have hiked w/ the the "useless one" and his critters:-)


You suspected right. You have hike with some of those critters. Good to see you here on the site Rob. Your going to have to get out on some of these group hikes with us.

As for bears, I keep the 416 Rigby inside the fanny pack.

Hooli watch out, those critters just might quit givin' hugs.
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evenstar





Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 5548
Location: SCW by way of CA

PostPosted: 4/20/2004, 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

kurthzone wrote:

Hooli watch out, those critters just might quit givin' hugs.


Bet the little critters won't! Razz
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When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
--Rudyard Kipling, from Just So Stories, 1902
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jeeperaz





Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 20

PostPosted: 4/28/2004, 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I frequent an area that has a healthy bear population. Most of the time the bears will run away from you....

but on one occasion, we ran into a large male. He showed no interest in us at first. We spotted him about 20 yards away. He continued towards us and we backed away. We grouped together to look like one large being instead of 4 bite-sized morsels. He finally stopped heading in our direction and sat down in the shade of a tree. We watched for 10 minutes at a safe distance (if there is such a thing).

We decided to turn around and head back to camp.... leaving the bear behind. About 30 minutes later I hear a scream from my friends wife, the bear had followed us and was now charging!

And then the planets must have been aligned in some bizzare fashion because right there was a backpackers campsite. The bear broke off his attack of us and ran fearlessly into their camp. We could hear him tearing into things. We yelled at the camp, "anyone in there?". "There is a bear in your camp".

There was no reply... the people thankfully were not in camp at the time. With no reason to stick around we climbed up out of the canyon and back to our camp about 1.5 miles away.

About 5:30 the next morning, my friends dog started barking insanely. We unzipped our tents to find that same fricken bear right outside of our camp. He stood still looking right at us while he moved his head back and forth. The dog was tied to a tree and the more he would bark, the more the bear became unsure of proceeding. Finally the bear turned and walked away without any fear of us.

All in all, it was a terrifying experience. What if at first we stumbled right on to the bear rather than spotting him at a distance? What if there was no backpackers camp to pull his attention away from us? What if we didnt have a dog in our camp?

I'll never be without my HK USP40 again.... at least not in this area.
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mike
What box?




Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 3134

PostPosted: 4/28/2004, 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

WOW! Shocked Great story, glad nothing happened to you guys. Do you mind telling us what area that was? And, welcome to the site!
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CatValet
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Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 4/28/2004, 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Sounds like Black River to me.....
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jeeperaz





Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 20

PostPosted: 4/29/2004, 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

CatValet wrote:
Sounds like Black River to me.....



Yep.

I miss that place. I no longer have friends who are outdoorsy enough for the Black and I cant get up the nerve to go by myself.... even for just a day trip. Sad
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CatValet
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Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 4/29/2004, 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I actually talked with a guy who was chewed up a bit by a bear at Point of Pines Campground back in the early 80s. The Indians sent out a search crew to hunt for the bear which may have been shot and wounded. They quit and went home after they ran out of beer. No bear....

The guy swore that he didn't have food in the tent when the bear came thru the tent wall and grabbed him, sleeping bag and all off a cot. I asked him what was under the cot. He said a cooler!!!! Crazy What kind??? The white styrofoam kind....(smell proof no doubt)! I asked what was in it? Hot dogs, ham, potato salad, deviled eggs, bread, the usual stuff... Shocked

The problem with that country is that so many car campers and fishermen without good backcountry food practices have habituated the bears to learn that every time people are present, they will toss around more tasty food than a Sunday School potluck picnic. Bears learn to shakedown campers, "Give It Up!! I know you've got peanut butter and ham salad, fork it over....".

Unfortunately, on Apache lands, they expect you to buy a hunting permit ($$$) to carry a firearm....They seem to think self protection is "hunting". I argued that I'm not hunting, I'm hiding....the pistol is only in case they find me. Didn't work...

(Cindy, if you read this...jeeperaz' experience is why I suggested caution for fishing solo and unarmed in this general area.)
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Guest








PostPosted: 4/29/2004, 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

CatValet wrote:
I actually talked with a guy who was chewed up a bit by a bear at Point of Pines Campground back in the early 80s. The Indians sent out a search crew to hunt for the bear which may have been shot and wounded. They quit and went home after they ran out of beer. No bear....

The guy swore that he didn't have food in the tent when the bear came thru the tent wall and grabbed him, sleeping bag and all off a cot. I asked him what was under the cot. He said a cooler!!!! Crazy What kind??? The white styrofoam kind....(smell proof no doubt)! I asked what was in it? Hot dogs, ham, potato salad, deviled eggs, bread, the usual stuff... Shocked

The problem with that country is that so many car campers and fishermen without good backcountry food practices have habituated the bears to learn that every time people are present, they will toss around more tasty food than a Sunday School potluck picnic. Bears learn to shakedown campers, "Give It Up!! I know you've got peanut butter and ham salad, fork it over....".

Unfortunately, on Apache lands, they expect you to buy a hunting permit ($$$) to carry a firearm....They seem to think self protection is "hunting". I argued that I'm not hunting, I'm hiding....the pistol is only in case they find me. Didn't work...

(Cindy, if you read this...jeeperaz' experience is why I suggested caution for fishing solo and unarmed in this general area.)
Point well taken Randy. Wink
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jeeperaz





Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 20

PostPosted: 4/29/2004, 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Yep, the area we were in is one of the more frequently visited spots. Obviously the bear knew humans = food. My concern was that he had lost his fear. First he charged us and then ran into the backpackers camp... all in broad daylight and without the slightest hesitation.

I've been going to the Black for 10+ years. Each year it gets more and more human traffic. I have studied and mapped that river pretty intensively during the last year trying to find areas that are more remote or harder to get to so as to avoid the crowds.

I've been thinking of buying a satellite telephone as it appears I will be doing solo trips to the Black. I'm more concerned with rattlesnakes than I am bears. Paranoia is getting the better of me. Shocked


Cheers,
Jeeper
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samiam





Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Casagrande

PostPosted: 5/7/2004, 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

you know they have a 50cal handgun thats verry light and powerful,its all the rave in the new gun mags..but Bang i have had quite a few bear incounters and ervry one has run away making a new trail through trees and such. I think eating then hiking a little bit befor dark is a verry good i dea and keep food away from camp,and also i hear a dence camp fire even smoke really detours alot of animals.. Question I havent heard of manny problems in Az. In cali where im from seems to be a verry likley place to have a encounter, none the less they almost cant be outrun Hike with a good doggy,im sure you will get a alarm.. Howl also anyone ever tried mace? Wacko
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Kim





Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 139

PostPosted: 5/13/2004, 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: guns r us Reply to topic Reply with quote

pfredricks wrote:
Kurt, as always, you are the fountain of hiking knowlege. I love that Marrison Haul system.

One thing sort of bothers me a little-
It seems like everytime a bear discussion comes up the shootin' subject is sure to follow. While shooting may be an option, I think that the emphasis should definitely be placed on preparation and options. Since we are hikers, I like to think of us as stewards of the lands that we love, which would mean not killing unless it is absolutely the last option.
Randy the Cat Valet is well versed as always. Again, I like what he had to say, and REdroxx makes sense too.

I think preparation is the key. One should know exactly what their reaction will be before it happens-because if you practice it you will do the right thing when the event actually occurs, not panic and make a stupid mistake. Truth is I am guilty of not knowing what to do exactly. Probably should.
1. Prevention
2. Reaction

For example would a dog whistle work better than a warning shot? What about a regular whistle.

What exactly is the proper reaction? Stop? walk slowly backwards? Look big as possible? Make lots of noise?

Please tell me.

Oh, then shoot. 9MM would be fine!



I just went to a backpacking workshop at REI last week and they said that they've heard 2 theories about the bear bells and making noise. One is that it scares them and the other is that it causes them to be curious and come see what the noise is. I guess where bears are familiar with humans= food, it might cause them to come closer...

I do carry pepper spray. It's light and maybe it'll work if all else fails since I don't feel comfortable getting a gun. Kim
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Kim





Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 139

PostPosted: 5/13/2004, 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

samiam wrote:
you know they have a 50cal handgun thats verry light and powerful,its all the rave in the new gun mags..but Bang i have had quite a few bear incounters and ervry one has run away making a new trail through trees and such. I think eating then hiking a little bit befor dark is a verry good i dea and keep food away from camp,and also i hear a dence camp fire even smoke really detours alot of animals.. Question I havent heard of manny problems in Az. In cali where im from seems to be a verry likley place to have a encounter, none the less they almost cant be outrun Hike with a good doggy,im sure you will get a alarm.. Howl also anyone ever tried mace? Wacko



I wonder about dogs, too. I especially wonder when I'm in South Mtn if having a dog could cause probs with the coyotes since they coyotes pretty much leave humans alone and I see dogs causing a ruccous with them a lot. I sometimes wonder if it could be a disadvantage to have a dog on a trip?
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DoFear





Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Phoenix, AZ

PostPosted: 5/13/2004, 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

My understanding is that dogs are pretty good at scaring bears away, but can draw wolves and coyotes. Coyotes probably would not take on a dog of good size esp with a human walking it. That attack in the Phoenix Mountain Preserve happened because it was a small dog and was not leashed. The report said the dog was more than one-hundred feet from owner. That is just a bad owner.
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k9hiker





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 390
Location: NW Phoenix

PostPosted: 5/16/2004, 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

We've discussed the dog attracting critter issue quite a bit on my club's webpage. I think the general concensus (of course it's pretty bias since we are all dog lovers) is that it's better to have the dog. Their senses are so much better than ours and even if they are affraid of the critter, being protective, or just curious they will likely alert you to its presence long before you could ever have spotted it. My dog saved me from two rattlers just the other day while hiking in Thunderbird park. She was leashed of course but walking a bit in front of me. Both times she "flushed" the snake enough to make it rattle and then I spotted it. Had she not been with me I would of likely walked right up on one of them.
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