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k9hiker





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 390
Location: NW Phoenix

PostPosted: 4/2/2004, 10:33 pm    Post subject: Bear with me! Reply to topic Reply with quote

I'm considering a b-pack trip into an area which has bear potential and as I don't have a lot of experience with bear proofing methods I'd like to hear what you all have found to be most effective, practical for backpacking, and convenient?

thanks
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Canine Hiking Club of AZ
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
Location: location location

PostPosted: 4/2/2004, 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

yes I typically use a small carabiner on the end of Kelty Triptease line, very visible in the night and chuck the 'biner over a tree branch, usually 50 ft. or more from camp. From the line I then suspend a simple stuff sack about 10x8 from the 'biner. Tie off the line to a rock or tent stake and thats it. Careful of the ringtail cat, much craftier than a bear...
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k9hiker





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 390
Location: NW Phoenix

PostPosted: 4/2/2004, 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

So you just do the ole hang it from a tree thing, huh. Never had any problems with other critters getting in there?
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Canine Hiking Club of AZ
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Shawn
I'll sell you map to Lost Dutchman mine!




Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 2592
Location: Ahwatukee, AZ

PostPosted: 4/2/2004, 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hikers in the Sierras invest in the bear canisters, which are a pretty neat deal in any country. The good ones are pretty pricy tho.
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k9hiker





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 390
Location: NW Phoenix

PostPosted: 4/2/2004, 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The canister types are also kind of heavy, well for my style of bping that is. I know some areas in cali require a canister but AZ as far as I know doesn't have those type of bear problems so far. I'd really like to keep what ever method I use simple and light. the URSACK thing looks impressive but I was thinking it might still be over kill for AZ. How common are our bear encounters?
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RedRoxx44
Queen of the Walkabout




Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1167

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I "treed" my food in the Galiuros, but I think campsite selection is very important. Disturbed areas where careless campers may have left food scraps will habituate animals. I scrutinize where I camp- I usually do not use obvious camp sites. I make sure I am not near a game trail and pay attention to any bear sign- digging by stumps, scat of course, tracks, lay ups or bear wallows, etc. If you read the signs you can try to locate yourself out of animal traffic areas. Remember they like to use hiking trails too- an easy mode of transport in thick brush areas.

A few years ago in Anza Borrego my hiking partner and I passed a cougar laid up about 10 feet off an old jeep trail we were exploring in manzanita. We had seen lots of track and some old deer or sheep bones but assumed the tracks could be old. When we lost the jeep trail , I bushwaked thru to a wash and came face to face with the young cat with about 2 small manzanita bushes separating us. Fortunately he/she was as scared of us of we were of him and he took off up the trail!! It took my partner 15 minutes to talk me into hiking back up the trail.

The signs were there- we just ignored them---
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ghoster





Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 152
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I have hiked around the four peaks area for a couple of years and still haven't seen any live bears, lots of scat last spring when the manzanita berries were in full bloom. The upper elevations on the south side are overgrown with some manzanita bushes that are tall, so encountering a bear there might be exciting. Camping around that area is difficult because level sites are few. THen there is a place called Black Bear Spring. I assume it got it's name from the inhabitants. The old timers tell me that before the Lone fire in 96 there were quite alot of bears up there, but afterwards they haven't returned in great numbers. I talked with some of the FS guys up there and got two different stories. THe older guys said that they hadn't seen any bears and the younger guys repeated the old "there is a bear every square mile" story. I feel that if you don't see them much they can't be too prevalent. Of course, keeping your camp site food free is one key to safe camping. Plus if you have dogs, bears are usually paranoid about them. Be safe and keep your eyes open for sign, and make noise when you are hiking in brushy areas. Common sense goes a long way toward hiking safety.
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CatValet
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Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

K9: All this feedback is good. I bearbag in a stuff sack well away from my tent. I include in the bearbag any deodorant, soup, drugs or anything else with an odor. If you cook real food (i usually only do freeze dried in a bag) and get ANY of it on your clothes, put them in the bear bag as well. In Grizz country, some people eat at 4pm and then hike at least a mile more before stopping for the night.

There is an old wives tale that moth balls will deter bears. Dunno if any truth to that one. Areas of concern would be the Chiricahua Wilderness, Escudilla, Point of Pines and the Black River area. Many other places including the Mazatzals and eastern Superstitions now have bears. Many of the Four Peaks bears were pushed into the Supes after the Lone Pine fire. Any places where habitat loss has been extreme result in population displacement and subsequent irrational animals. I suspect the lion problems in Sabino are largely resultant from last year's fire in the Mt. Lemmon area, which no doubt displaced a number of deer and the lions who prey on them.

Clean camp, all odorific items well bagged, and clean hikers are the best bet. The further from a campground with garbage cans, fire pits and cars, the better off you are.

Never play dead with a black bear. Fight with anything you have. Playing dead is the best option with grizz, their attacks are usually defensive in nature and they often back off if no resistance is offered. You have no chance with a Grizz, anyway. Black Bear attacks are usually predatory in nature prompted by feeding or habituation problems; or even starvation problems in bear habitat. Dr. Stephen Herrero is the best expert on North American bear conflicts. He learned that all fatal black bear attacks in Canada over a number of years were conducted by bears with serious malnutrition. Autopsies on the bears showed they were in "ketosis" and were experiencing loss of body mass from starvation.

There is still some discussion about the wisdom of women entering bear country while menstruating. Some people think its an issue, others think it is a coincidence. I think there have been far too many coincidences of this nature to discard the theory outright.

For those who are tempted to carry a firearm for protection, my best serious advice is to have enough gun to do the job. Acceptable options are .357, .40 S&W, 45ACP, 45LC, and .44mag. A 9mm or .38 is questionable, and anything less than that will only make them mad.... A large centerfire rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs or buckshot works well but is a real pain to hike with.

I have backpacked both with and without arms. I've never even come close to needing the weapon, but it does help overcome insomnia when you are laying in your bag listening to things go bump in the night.
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evenstar





Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 5548
Location: SCW by way of CA

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

When hiking in bear country, always hike with someone you can outrun. Rolling Eyes
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When the Man waked up he said, "What is Wild Dog doing here?" And the Woman said, "His name is not Wild Dog anymore, but the First Friend, because he will be our friend for always and always and always. Take him with you when you go hunting."
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CatValet
Got Gear?




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

That would be me.......hence the firearm. I'm the one still standing in the trail wondering where everyone else went so dang fast.
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Nighthiker





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1714

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

My back country fare is the MRE's, bears don't like them.
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CatValet
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Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 4/3/2004, 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Shucks, people don't like them! Hmmmm, they may make good bear repellant.
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MikeInFHAZ





Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1401
Location: location location

PostPosted: 4/4/2004, 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

9mm haha thats funny! you cant even take down a grown man let alone a 260lb. bear!

Randy, Im in the market for a .40 Sig or HK. What have you heard about these (sub-compacts)?

I still have not seen bears, have looked for typical signage, nothing.
Im an ultra-lighter, and the canisters are huge! My pack is only 2400 inches, geez. Ergo, the bag and string works well, at only 1 oz.
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bridge hammock, quilts and tarp (all DIY)

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Nighthiker





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1714

PostPosted: 4/4/2004, 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Just bark at them to scare them off, don't bark to good are you might tree them.
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Cynhikr





Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1197
Location: Tempe, AZ.

PostPosted: 4/5/2004, 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Here are a couple of diagrams of tried-and-true bear resistant hanging systems .
http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/training/bearbag.html
and
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/9200/bearbagging.html

If you are more concerned about mice, etc. climbing down the rope, you can use, say, a plastic margarine lid, dog food lid, etc. with a hole punched in the center...... knot the line closely on both sides of the lid, and that will deter most down-climbing, as they cannot get around the lid.
Another method would be to piece in about 3' of wire where the rope would be hanging straight down.... nothing for little claws to grab on to......
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