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fairweather8588





Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 716

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Should we create a poll and let everyone vote on whether to add a forum specifically for discussing political topics?
i think you should that way people have the option and people will not be offended, its a plus for both the people who love to argue politics and people who hate too
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ck1





Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 1331
Location: Mesa

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

As much as Jerrod and I would love to wax political for hours on end...I can see trouble brewing from a post...not that that doesn't already happen on other threads, but it might not be the finest idea for the site...on the other hand...it is an election year...

Here's the thing...anytime anyone posts something remotely political, they get "reminded" by a half dozen members that this is a hiking website. The whole "cost of Iraq war" thread is a perfect illustration...

As much as I'd like to see a political section, I don't think that alot of people could handle it. Even the ones who say "I don't want to read about politics" will be tempted into the DANGER section, and how many of us are experts at restraining ourselves when it comes to posting...

Again, as much as I'd love to see the section...this might be an issue that should be passed on "for the good of the order"..

Does that make sense?
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BoyNhisDog
The dangerous place where the winds meet




Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

ck1 wrote:
Again, as much as I'd love to see the section...this might be an issue that should be passed on "for the good of the order"..

Does that make sense?


Yes it does. I have in the last few years seen some good sites ruined by the disscussion of politics and religion. It just happenes and like someone above said, Hoolie maybe, the bickering that will come, and make no mistake about it, it will come, crosses the debate lines into the hiking portion or whatever portion the main site is made up of. It just happens.

There will be some issues related to hiking and outdoors anyway but the rest of the screwed up world will have to do without at least me on this and any other forum. I come for the hiking stories and outdoor experience. I don't have a personal problem with anyone else discussing anything they want but I won't get into anything political etc if is does not directly relate to the outdoors and hiking. I hope this site stays the friendly, carefree place that it is now. I'm not judging others here at all, just stating observations and putting in my own two cents.
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SUN_HIKER





Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I agree with Glen 100%. I enjoy this site for hiking and outdoor related issue but if it becomes tainted with all this other crap it will be a shame. If I want a political debate I will go on a political forum. Please, let's keep this site focused on the outdoors.

GB
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sherileeaz





Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 874

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Yeah, first hiking, then politics, then what? Twisted Evil Eek Diablo
I agree with Gabriele, I think we should stick to hiking. angel

Sherilee
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CatValet
Got Gear?




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Location: Scottsdale

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Since I was one of the first to get riled, I don't care if we have a seperate section on politics or not; but my personal preference is not. Those of us on both sides of the issues who feel very passionate about it, and think that some of the outcomes are life-and-death, might prefer a "don't ask, don't tell" approach to such things. That way, we can continue in community and not slide into conflict.

The fact that a link above caused me and some others to respond harshly, was because some issues have heavily polarized our country. Since this election is a fairly clear choice between two diverse courses, discussing it here might polarize this community, which I'd gladly avoid. I'm sorry if my above criticism upset anyone.
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srlatty





Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 270
Location: Ahwatukee

PostPosted: 5/22/2004, 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Glen, GB and Colin all sum it up pretty well. Let's try to keep it a hiking site. The Off Trail area will always be there for the occasional wayward thread, and that is the way it should be. Let's not open up an area that could lead us into discussions that will affect our relationships throughout the site. Even though we say that the feelings/emotions will be left at the door, that rarely happens.

Just my $.02...
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Hikngrl
Canyoneering is my 'Happy Place'




Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: 5/23/2004, 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hey Daddee,
What about you could create your own Yahoo discussion board and invite those from here that want to come over and participate to do so... Just a thought...
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samiam





Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Casagrande

PostPosted: 5/23/2004, 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Can we vote then make sure there are no hanging chads? Any one hiked Mt. lemon? Embarassed Im still unsure what we are dicussing,i havent yet seen a argument. Just a link to a site that is pretty good info,not really partisan to any afect..I might be wrong Neutral
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Daddee
I once was a slug.




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 2815
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: 5/24/2004, 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Well, this topic certainly heated up in the two days I've been gone!

For what it is worth:
dcornelius wrote:
I think what Daddee is lookin for here isnot just to talk politics and other sticky subjects but to talk them with those he knows and likes from this board.

You are correct Diane. I've been to other forums where political discussion is the norm - and they are horrible. As I've said frequently, I enjoy having a reasonable discussion with people whom I know aren't going to resort to name-calling and abuse. The people on this forum for the most do not resort to gurilla tactics. I think discussions on this forum (if kept in the "reasonable" domain) would be extremely useful.

There are a number of you who have written opinions in the past that I disagreed with, and said so. However, after discussion I was able to see why you held that opinion and understand a differnet point of view. That is a marvelous and rare insight to gain. I may still disagree with you - but I can disagree with understanding instead of bitterness and anger. I really enjoyed the experience despite a few heated words from time to time. I have even, unknowingly, deeply offended a few of you - but through patience we were able to come to an understanding. There are a great many on this forum who I respect tremendously, and that respect has only been strengthened by our occasional discussions and debates.

This topic has been somewhat inflamatory in the respect of having brought out strong opinions from everyone - and that is a good thing. Now we know where everyone stands. I thought when I posted it that I would get this type of reaction. I also thought that the majority reaction would be against, with a few that were mildly supportive.

Hooli and others are correct as well. If we had a forum specifically for political or similar posts, arguments would come and people will get offended. It is, sadly, inevitable. However, as previously stated, we've had them before and gotten past them, and I have high expectations we will get past any such disagreements in the future.

Please understand, the last thing I want to do is make this forum an uncomfortable or fractioius place to be. That's not why we created it and it's not why we come here. We come here for cameraderie, friendship, hiking and making fun of Hooli. These things are what make AZH such a great place to be.

My only concern is that we occasionally do get posts that create a certain amount of heated debate. I would like to keep those in an area where those who want to avoid them completely are able to, and those who just can't resist (like me) can do thier thing. The hard part is that sometimes those topics just sort of happen in response to an otherwise innocent post. So, my idea may not be the solution, or it might be. Who knows.

If Mike or GTG would like to run a poll to see the actual level of support from the forum members - I will support that, but I will not create one myself. I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome will be.

I hope you all understand why I made the suggestion, and that I understood at the time what the potential pitfalls would be. Which is why I made this topic in the first place - to find out what others thought about it. And we found out - and nobody is terribly offended yet (which I hope also shows that such a forum could be successful if treated properly - but I'm a little idealistic that way).
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