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On Civilization and the Wilderness

 
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snick33





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 67
Location: Scottsdale Arizona

PostPosted: 12/11/2003, 6:25 pm    Post subject: On Civilization and the Wilderness Reply to topic Reply with quote

How does one explain this. When I’m hiking and come across a road, a building, or even a utility pole, to me, it looks like part of the wilderness . . . . I’m not put off by its presence . . . I don’t view it as an intrusion. . . . . . I don’t think SRP or APS spent a great deal of time on the design or interfacing of their utility towers, but somehow they just seem to have blended in to the background. Almost as if nature has accepted them into their space. I don’t mean to sound like a glossy ad in a magazine explaining why something is good for us and good for the plant so accept it and learn to live with it. It’s just I’ve always wondered why people get so cranky. A cesspool of fermenting garbage is one thing, but an abandoned building, an old chimney from a factory, or old buildings from a mine are interesting to me, not something that needs to be cleaned up. A row of electrical transmission towers disappearing into the distance is a neat to me. Maybe they’ve have gotten to me, or maybe the stray current has scrambled my brains. And no, I’m not heavily invested in utilities.
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Daddee
I once was a slug.




Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 2815
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: 12/11/2003, 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I'm not sure you're so unusual Snick. There is a certain adventurous quality about buildings and structures in the wilderness. How did it get there? How much work was involved? What is/was its purpose?

I think ghost towns are the prime example of that. The sheer mystery of it all is amazing.

Now - if it is an active structure that is creating noise and additional dammage every day - that is something else.

But I agree with you - some of the structures you see out in the bush are kind of cool in a pioneering sort of way. But there is a strange sort of dichotomy there: if the building is old or abandoned, it's usually cool. If it's newer and either active or only recently put into disuse, it's kind of ugly and unwelcome.

Go figure.
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plummer150





Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 542
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey

PostPosted: 12/12/2003, 3:08 am    Post subject: re: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I completely agree.
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Hikngrl
Canyoneering is my 'Happy Place'




Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: 12/13/2003, 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I know my amazment with Tony's cabin has to do with the wonder of the history of the place. The idea that someone lived way out there in the middle of no where. Some one who had to pack all of his supplies in cause there is no other way to get there. This person must have been a loner.... He was obviously a farmer ( hence the disk behind the cabin) who was mostly self sufficient and grew most of his food and hunted most of the rest.... small cabin so ya know there weren't to many people who lived there.... Why did he choose to live there? Was the clearing out behind the cabin where he farmed his crops to support him self...? Did he spend hours at night looking at the stars out there? Did he play a muxical instrument? I just love that place and all the land surrounding it with the coral and the spring.... Even though I know many other people have been there I feel kinda like it is my secret place.... That is the silly romantic part of me! Embarassed
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BoyNhisDog
The dangerous place where the winds meet




Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: 12/28/2003, 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Sometimes it makes the wilderness more like wilderness. When I was walking way out into the Mohave desert, I came upon a big power line with towers and all. It made the desert seem so surreal. I don't like power lines for their looks at all and felt good to be away from it but it did add to that scene and experience.
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Hikngrl
Canyoneering is my 'Happy Place'




Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: 12/28/2003, 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hey my friend! wave Good to see you out and about Glen! How's your honey?
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BoyNhisDog
The dangerous place where the winds meet




Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: 12/28/2003, 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hello little hiker girl, or I should say awesome big hiker girl after some of you latest adventures. My personal hiker girl is doing super. Even after 20 years I'm not ready to let this one go. She just got back from hiking with me on this nice crisp post solstice day in the southern deserts.

We actually got to see some small patches of snow in a few places and to keep on topic we ran across some 100+ year old sites where people used to live and mine. Lots of fallen down timbers and rusted tin roofing, old blue and purple glass. Then we found their old mine and filled up our packs with all sorts of colorful rocks for the rock garden, took some photos had an awesome trail lunch and drifted back to the hacienda. Perfect day. I'm pretty sure we found some gold as well. Mr. Green Well it looks like gold.
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Jeff12633





Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 12/30/2003, 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I don't mind finding signs of past civilization along a "remote" hike...after all, there's a building atop the highest mountain in the lower 48, right? Still, though, when I struggle to the top of a mountain I can't help but feel disappointed to find a road or an occupied structure--I guess because I like to feel like I've gotten somewhere that one can only reach by hard work and determination. If I know it's there ahead of time, of course, it's easier to adjust my expectations, but I'm less likely to want to do the hike in that case.

Don't mind me, I'm just an oddball.
Crazy Jeff
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azrocks





Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 19

PostPosted: 1/1/2004, 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The Nature Conservancy often aims to restore their property to the state prior to modern man by erasing farm buildings etc. This denies that man is part of nature. When we destroy habitat and drive species to extinction we are acting as predators to select the fittest to survive. Diversity has always returned after mass extinctions, and will return when humanity dies out, even if we go in a blaze of nuclear glory. Do you agree ?
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Jeff12633





Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chandler, AZ

PostPosted: 1/2/2004, 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I would agree to some extent.... I think it's fair to say that as the planet's dominant species there's no reason why we shouldn't leave our mark on the planet, and in fact from the standpoint of such signs being part of our living history and part of improving the conditions of our existence, we should.

But I also think that since we have developed the ability to change the planet for better or worse, we have a moral responsibility to try to change it for the better. This doesn't necessarily preclude things like oil drilling or guarantee that species will not become extinct; it merely means that we should be responsible in the way we use the resources around us! How do we know which species would become extint if we weren't here--if we protect every species of plant and animal because we don't want it to become extint, how do we know we're not in fact dooming other species or even ourselves? We'd be exceptionally arrogant to think we know Nature's plan and that we're smart enough to declare ourselves in charge of that plan!

Lots of tough issues and heated debate wrapped up in this subject--I wouldn't want to start anything along those lines!

Jeff
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